VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 carb floods

When my 32 with a carter 569S idles or sits after use she floods. I've rebuilt it with the F.S. kit and re-checked the float adjustment. Gas was sitting in the bottom of the float chamber +/- 1/2", and I couldn't blow air through the fuel intake when holding it with the float dropped. ( which closes the needle valve).
I've installed a fuel pressure gauge at the carb , sometimes it registered 2 psi and other times 0 when running , but always goes to zero at rest. This behavior is the same if I use the electric pump or the original mechanical pump. Does anyone have any more ideas why this thing might be flooding?

I recommend you remove the electric pump and pressure regulator. Insure that the float height is correct and there is nothing in the needle seat and give it a try. Bet it will work better.

Ray,
Thank you for the prompt reply but I put on the the pump and gauge to help find the problem. Can you tell me is it normal to lose all pressure when to engine is off? No fuel came out of the intake side of the mech pump when disconnected,but did flow back when I disconnected the output side.

rwolf, I don't quite understand, you say you added an electric pump because the engine floods?seems like going in a opposite direction to me and the fuel pressure is aprox. 2 psi with the pumps running, and goes to zero when the engine isn't running, that sounds like it should be with just the mechanical pump. Is the electric pump hooked up to the ignition switch? if so that's what I would expect. maybe there is something going on with the choke, air cleaner or inside the carb?

Just a suggestion, when the engine floods, choke off, and hold the foot feed to the floor , no pumping, and crank the engine to clear the gasoline out and get some air into the cylinders.

I also recommend that you remove your electric fuel pump and your pressure regulator.

Your problem is probably the Viton tipped needle that comes in the carb. rebuild kit that you purchased from the Filling Station. Most all of the carb. kits today come with the Viton tipped needles. IMHO the Viton tipped needles are junk because I have found that they usually cause flooding. I refuse to use them in any carburetor. I suggest that you replace the needle and seat in your 569-S carb. with a metal needle and matching seat and with everything else being equal your flooding problems will probably go away. Also check your float to make sure that it doesn't contain liquid inside since that will also cause your carb. to flood.

Thanks to all for the advice,

Thanks to all for the advice,
The car use to crank and crank until the battery quit and still wouldn't start.( by the way this engine is very tight and hand cranking is a real effort,I think somebody before me didn't leave quite enough clearance somewhere).It appeared to be a fuel problem.Priming the carb didn't seem to help, but by this time the engine would only turn very slow.This is why I put on a fuel psi gauge and elec pump, just to check it out. When I checked the battery it registered almost 7 volts but I decided to take hydrometer readings anyway. That's where the problem was, low readings. After an overnight charge she spins like crazy.
But this isn't going to stop the flooding at idle or after sitting.
I've since removed the elec pump and replace the needle and seat with brass. It made no difference if I ran the pumps in tandam or either one individually.
Regarding the system not holding pressure I'm guessing that as the engine runs the needle valve must find some sort of a balance between open and closed and when the enigine is shut off if the valve is open the pressure would be lost in the carb. I don't think this is a bad thing because there will still be fuel in the accelerator pump cylinder and in the float bowl.
This is about as much as I can figure out, if there is any more advice or if I'm wrong in my thinking PLEASE let me know.

rwolf,
The Tech guys know more about this than me, but I had a similar problem with my '32.
My carb was also leaking at the plunger top and around the fuel reservoir. I installed a new gasket and a new plunger piston, cleaned all the passageways with pipe cleaners and a very thin metal wire for the jets. I installed a new bottom gasket too.
Then, I was not getting enough fuel. Just sperts out of the fuel jet. The resevoir was almost empty! I bought a fuel pump rebuild kit from the FS and it starts on the first turn and it runs great now.
By the way... Good to hear from ya again.
RayG

Ray,
Good to here from you and thanks for sharing your experience. The car does start and run and we'll be going back to N.Y.Monday so I think I'll just leave it alone until come back down here in Jan. However, the Florida climate in Jan is different than July so I don't know how she'll behave. Right now I just cross my fingers and hope she'll start. So far so good.
Bob
P.S. Burned out a headlight bulb, they are impossible to get down here, I'll have to order some from the F.S when I get back.

have you got the correct gas tank cap,all your problems sound like its vacuuming,just remove your cap and try running it,also whats your fuel line like,try blowing back on it with an air line,if removing cap works it means you have no vent in yours

Hey zodiac,
That reminded me that I should have told Bob that I also bought a new vented gas cap from the FS.
Sounds like you may have something there. ???

me again,also had one were the float did not sit level,stripped that car three times before i found it,float was jamming in chamber although there was no sign of puncture or damage,i added a bit of solder to level it up,

Thanks Zodiac,
But I'm sure the cap is vented because I drilled 4 holes in the side where they are not noticable.

Figure this out,
Yesterday afternoon because this thing makes me nervous,I re-installed the elec fuel pump in an inconspicious area. After easy driving for about 1/2 an hour last night the engine just died. I switched on the new pump and after a second I was back running.Then turned off the elec pump and everything was fine. Could this be coincindental with an ign problem-maybe but I doubt it. I know the float is not loading up but maybe as Zodiac says it's jamming.

Bob,
Do you know if the mechanical pump is good? The pump on my car just quit out of the blue. When I checked the diaphram it looked fine untill I took it off to replace it. Seems the center hole in the diaphram elongated over time and lost pressure.

i would start at the beginning,bag of tools,nice day,friend at the end of a cell phone.i would drive to the engine cut,immediately stop the car,wherever i was,remove float chamber,is there any fuel,yes it must be carb main jet or elsewhere past carb or ELECTRICS/IGNITION,no fuel check pump just crank it over if fuel pumps out of line check stop valve in carb and float,you must have a reasonable flow not a spurty dribble,if no fuel disconect fuel line into pump and blow down it,yes i know it tastes bad but after 57 years im still doing it,should be very slight resistance and you should hear bubbling in tank,if its blocked you will soon know,another trick is to remove pump still connected and operate pump lever manually,if car has been stored for years what is inside of tank like,i cannot count how many rags we have pulled out of tanks,simular symtoms to yours,my chevy flows fuel to pump by gravity in other words if i disconnect at pump fuel flows out,if none of this works ship it to england we will fix it or let us know what you find

Thanks for the advice- I will not be able to look into this until I leave the N.Y. snow for the Florida sun in Jan. I will save these messages in a file and refer to it then. Thanks again.

By the way - shipping it to England doesn't sound like a bad idea -If I could come with it!

I've had kind of similar problem last week. I took my '32 out for a 'round the block trip, and all of the sudden the the motor conked out. After drifting to a stop, I opened the hood to see gas dribbling all over the side of the carb. I was able to get it started after a couple of tries, and drive it home.

Does that sound like the needle being blocked, or the float getting stuck? I don't know if I should take the carb apart and look around. Thoughts?

Check your needle for dirt. Sounds like it could have been stuck open, which would cause the flooding. And, while you are in there, remove your float and shake it to see if there is any liquid inside. That could cause flooding also.

Dawg, i found out this last week that an updraft Carb works somewhat different when it floods (carb jets gummed up with new gasoline after setting for a few months. I couldn't get the 28 to fire a lick, till I took the carb off and washed everthing out with B-12, there was gasoline running out the back of the carb and out onto the floor, but none getting into the cylinders, the needle was stuck open. After the carb cleaning it started and ran fine.
The same thing happened to a friend's Miller welding machine with a 4 cylinder red seal engine, I replaced the plugs, points and condenser, it was getting fire but the plugs were completely dry, the engine has a Marvel updraft carb, a cup of old gas ran out of the hose going from the airhorn and up to the air cleaner, it looked like it had chocolate syrup inside the bowl.I washed it out with B-12 and put a new kit in it and it fired right up and ran.
Even though the gasoline was running out the carbs none was getting up to the manifold, I guess a updraft has to spray the gas into the airstream in order to run.

The problem is common with both updrafts and downdraft carbs. Modern gas can relatively quickly produce gum and varnish. It will "glue" the needle to the seat, normally in the open position. Some updrafts particularly with vacuum tanks will stick the needle in the closed position. It does not take much time or amount of stuff. B-12 is by far the best at removing the gooo. It does not have anything to do with the rubber (viton) tipped needles, though they will stick faster due to their lighter weight compared with all metal.

The best solution is to drain out all gas from the carb if storing for any extended period. Next is to add a little ATF (one glug) to each tank of gas. Adding some solvent carb cleaner (B-12) every once in a while is ok too. But periodically you will need to clean the carb of the gum and varnish. I have to clean mine even though I take ond Chevys on several tours each year and also drive them relatively often.

That seems to make sense to my dilemma, because I have a fuel filter right before the carb, and the last time this happened I took apart everything and couldn't find a speck of dirt. I'll give this path a try as well, Chipper.