VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1929 landau Imperial sed convt, Trim!

With out going out and looking at this yet, what should I look for as far as good nos. And would the 31 bolt right on to the 29 clutch and housing? Iknew you would shoot me down but I can dog b
paddle in water for a while

Your 1931 engine serial number should be seven digits and not six.

How many no. on a30 or 29?

1929 engine serial numbers started at number one. All 1930 engines have seven digit serial numbers as does 1931. Your engine is definitely a 1931 because of the block casting number and the casting date.

Ithink
i might get sick, but dont tell my wife, I will check this weekend thanks, Ithink Roger

You're welcome.....I think.

Anyway, check the casting number on your cylinder head also and post it here. We will tell you what year the cylinder head is as well. Also, I have some 1929 engine blocks if you need one.

I doubt if slow sales was the reason the Imperial Landau was discontinued. Almost 55,000 were sold in 1928. I think a more likely reason was customer complaints of a leaky roof. The seal and water drain system between the convertible top and the fixed roof is a very primitive design that probably led to a lot of ugly water stains in the interior. The stock market crash was at the end of 1929, so the price was not likely to have caused a sales decline. Chevrolet sales were still good through 1930 and most of 1931, some folks in hard times were buying Chevrolets instead of Buicks and Cadillacs.

Rip, don't worry we'll never tell her, and I hope you don't let her peek in on Chat II!! To help you figure out what you have as a complete drive-train, the '29 and '30 cars had a pressed steel bell housing, to which the tranny was bolted with bolts hidden inside the bell housing, and the clutch was adjusted by a hooked bolt mechanism through the yoke(this is what I have for the '30 engine in my '31 Coach). By '31 I understand they went to a cast steel bell housing, and the tranny was bolted on from the tranny side with 4 bolts exposed for you to see and allow tranny removal. The clutch was by then adjusted by way of a newer adjusting plate mounted on the pedal shaft. Various threads here cover the relative interchangeability of these various components, and what can be done routinely, and what is problematic. You could have a '31 engine with a '29 or '30 bell housing and tranny or with a complete '31 drivetrain. Would love to have your car!!!

By "Imperial Landau" I meant just the convertible model, which was new for '29. You are also right about the leaky roof thing, which would also have contributed to the thoughts of cancellation. I agree that the stock market crash had nothing to do with it, the car had run it's course as a novelty thing and the only way to improve sales was put a fixed roof on it. It reminds me of the Thunderbird... a sucsessful debut, but changed to a 4 seater after just three years of a downward trend in sales. Once you've captured that market that wants the 'trendy' car, there is no lift in sales afterward. Just as Ford added back seats to make the T-bird functional, Chevrolet added a fixed top to make this one functional. The results show, the car was a success after the change... 42000 sales in 6 months is a big improvement!

Well I looked again and there is no other no. stamped just those six no. Up higher on the side of the block above the cast no. there is another cast no. it reads conv. -3. Ithought Imight have a diferant head (on the engine) my temp sender is in the back. The bell housing and cluch and tranny are 29. Roger

If my wife was reading this she would be sending you a title and a red ribbon.

If the temperature sending unit is in the back of the cylinder head then your cylinder head is a 1930 or up. You would have to check the casting date and the casting number to find out which cylinder head you have.

Too bad that you have the wrong engine in your convertible landau because that is a desirable car. However, you can always purchase another 1929 engine or cylinder block to make the car correct.

The 1930 head and block that I have is all but perfect new poured bearing and on and on. I wonder if a person could ever trade with someone? Would it bring the value of the car up enough to make the trade worth while? It is a 8 or9 driver, but not a musseum piece now.

The only reason to change the engine would be if your are dedicated to having a 100% original car. The '30 looks like the '29 and if you have '29 manifolds the vast majority of people will never know it is not a '29 engine.

You right but I will always know I will keep looking and go from there , its a great car. Thanks alot and have a good one Roger

As stated above, due to the casting number and the casting date, the engine block that is in your car is a 1931, not a 1930!

Since you have a 1929 convertible landau, which is a very desirable car, on the market your vehicle would be worth more to a true collector if your car had the correct engine.

You had said that you might have a block or 2, but would you have a complete block with haed

I have several 1929 long blocks but I believe that I have sold all of my 1929 cylinder heads. Those all went to Canada.

Maybe a PM what does a ,long block run? Would the ones you sold the heads to happen to be VCCA members?

I just sent you a PM.

UPDATE:

The research regarding 1929 Convertible Landaus made by body number per factory continues. Talked to a VCCA member today from Indiana who has a 1929 Convertible Landau (Job 8860) with a body number of J 2348. "J" would be Janesville and his body number of 2348 indicates that his car was the 2,348th Convertible Landau made in the Janesville factory in 1929. Now we can add Janesville to the list of factories that produced the Convertible Landau.

So, to recap, we have now documented that the 1929 Convertible Landaus were made in at least the following factories: Janesville, Oakland, Kansas City, Flint, Cleveland, and Oshawa, Canada. The lowest body number found so far for a Convertible Landau is 441 (Flint factory) and the highest number found to date is 8101 (also Flint factory).

Based on the existing 1929 Convertible Landaus that have had their cowl tags documented, the breakdown on the minimum number of Landaus made in each factory is as follows.

Janesville: 2,348
Oakland: 1,879
Oshawa, Canada: 1,516
Flint: 8,101
Kansas City: 481
Cleveland: 1,098

Total number of 1929 Convertible Landaus documented so far (combined from all factories listed above): 15,423. Again, this total number is from the existing Convertible Landaus that have had their cowl tags documented. There are still many more Convertible Landaus that exist that have not had their cowl tags researched as of yet.

This documented information should refute once and for all the "only 300 made" theory.

It is hard to give up a theory especially when facts are few. However, the number may be as you write, JYB, or it may be 294, 300, or who knows. What we do "apparently" know is mostly covered in the first five pages of this posting In summary, one plant made the bodies, various plants assembled the cars, and consecutive numbering by body type typically used may not / is probably not applicable for the IL.

You are right...it is. However, in this case there are absolutely no facts to back up the "only 300 made" rumor that was started many decades ago.

On the flip side every IL that exists has factual information concerning the number made in a particular factory on the car's individual cowl tag, and more IL's seem to be appearing often like the one made in the Janesville factory that came to light yesterday. And, the owner of that vehicle knows of two more IL's in his general location, one of which was made in Canada.

Here are some of the documented facts that we have so far:

At least six factories (including Oshawa in Canada) made the convertible landau.

From Chevrolet information we have discovered that the convertible landau was made from the beginning of the model year through June (or possibly July) of 1929.

Chevrolet has stated in print that they sent at least one convertible landau each to their 5,000 dealers in August of 1929.

Pontiac also made a convertible landau in 1929.

The survivor rate of the IL is way too high to support the rumor of the "only 300 made" (as I mentioned above, three more IL's appeared yesterday).

Regarding the consecutive numbering possibly not being applicable to the IL, at this point that is pure conjecture since the cowl tags on these vehicles say differently. If the consecutive body numbering was not applicable, why have the body number on the cowl tag at all? What would be the point? Why would the consecutive number document the actual body number in a particular factory of all other Fisher Body models, but not the IL?

As more IL's come onto the scene, and as existing owners provide their vehicle's body number, the more overview we will get of the actual number of cars made and the factories in which they were made. For example, when this discussion was first started several years ago it was believed that only one factory made the IL, but now we know that at least six factories made the vehicle.

The documentation will continue and a registry of the IL's is being put together listing all of the pertinent information regarding each IL survivor that is located.

I know that you would like the "only 300 made" rumor to be true, and if I owned one of those cars I would like it to be true as well. Unfortunately, while there is no documentation to prove the "300" rumor, there is documentation to prove that thousands of convertible landaus were made in 1929.

If only 300 were made you would be lucky to find more than one or two still in existance. They were the first 1929's to be junked due to water leaks in the rear and rotted wood. When they were a few years old they would have become an undersireable body style due to the leakage problems.

As a side note, three more IL's were located yesterday and three today as well. That is a total of six additional IL's in the past two days. We are working right now on getting the cowl tag, engine casting dates and the car serial number information on the vehicles to add to the file on the existing IL's.