VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions This protects the information from being accessibl

Bill, maybe you can help me understand the logic behind the practice of isolationism? I’m referring to this line in your recent post; "This protects the information from being accessible to non-members."
I've only been a member for four or five years and I've never been able to figure out why the VCCA wants to keep restoration information a secret or out of the hands of the general public. The success of TOCMP is evidence of how healthy a public archive can be. Heck, I’ve found it almost impossible to find the secret archives here on the forum. If it weren’t for Gene and a few of the guys on the chat I would have difficulty finding a reason to belong to the VCCA.
I don’t tour, I can’t afford that on my budget. Just the act of the restoration of my 1950 & ’54 trucks eats up most of my pension so touring the country holds no interest to me. I would participate in a VCCA show if I could ever find one in the local Chicago area but there again, I haven’t found one in the time I have belonged to the group.
I know there must be a lot of members out there that are interested in restoring their own vehicles rather than having some restoration shop do it for them so they can trailer it to a weekend touring vacation.
I joined because I thought the object of the VCCA was the sharing of information for the accurate preservation of these classic vehicles.
I'm sure there are some long time members here that believe that a non-member has nothing to offer but that just seems to me a narrow-minded approach and very unhealthy for increasing club membership. My mentioning this might not be to popular but I’ve heard from literally dozens of people who were VCCA members at one time only to drop their membership because of the information sharing policies.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, maybe it is because of VCCA being a Club, and not a public archive.

Denny, I feel what you are saying. I think you first must relize that this web site is a valuable source for information, which you do, but it is also club web site first and foremost.

That said I personaly think the price of admission is a small price to pay given all that's here.

Denny,
I wrote the above in a hurry this morning. I should have also encouraged you to re-join. I know times are tough, and being on a fix income they are even tougher. True this web site is a club activity and most of the advice here is free to everyone. I believe that that's what this site has wanted to offer since the start. You have to understand that the site takes maintenance and improvements along the way. I'm not an insider, and I don't know the costs involved but I'm sure the VCCA is doing the best it can to keep this up and running.

Yes it's a great resource to many, but it's also a club web site. The members that have volunteered to provide the very information you have used did so because they believe in helping fellow enthusiasts. I think once a guest downloads or copies or frequents our site time after time, there comes a point where that person would realize that it's time to join and have full access.

Once that person becomes a member I'm sure that they would be eager to share what they have learned with future guest looking for advice. That in a nutshell is what the VCCA is all about. Remember we are Non-profit!

Respectfully, RayG

Denny I know that you have been one of the significant contributors to ChatII. We all thank you for that. I didn't know that it is VCCA policy to restrict information. Maybe you know something I don't. I do know that if we treat non-members the same a members that the IRS will take our "not for profit" status away! So there must be some things that members get and non-members not.



Does that mean that in your opinion all that information needs to be in a public forum or can some be in the public and other reserved for VCCA Members?


I am a bit confused. What information sharing are you referring to? I know that some people feel that they deserve to receive all needed information for free. I for one will continue to donate my time and experience to support the VCCA but am less and less comfortable giving a free ride to the freeloaders.

Denny... I really feel bad for you that there is not a region in your local area, and I hope you take full advantage of the fact that the Flint 50th anniversary is right in your back yard. Unfortunatly, when we chose to take on this hobby there are a lot of hidden costs that jump into the mix and get in the way of our main goal... enjoying our vintage Chevrolet! It is certainly not a poor man's hobby, and I feel bad for anyone that has to be limited by a fixed income just to enjoy this lifestyle choice. Some of the crappy expenses... Insurance, Licencing Fees, Appraisal Costs, Tanks of Gasoline, Taxes, Fuel Stabalizer (just to make the stupid gas work!!) And on and on...

Really the $35 you pay a year for the VCCA is not that much, compared to these other expenses, which give you NOTHING in return! I like to think that my $70 a year (I'm Canadian) also gets me the time on this site, new friendships with similar interests, as well as the only magazine subscription worth waiting in two feet of snow by the mailbox for! The reality is that there are other places to get "free" information about our cars. I belong to other Chat sites, but this is the only one that I donate money to support, as it gives the most back to me in my goal of enjoying my cars. A lot of the guys on this site (and others) donate a lot in the way of time (both on the computer, and doing research) for free to give others the help they need. Not to put words in their mouths, but I would think that the folks that do all this work would feel a wee bit better about giving it to someone they know is going to give back to our hobby and contribute to the club as payment for their efforts. My biggest fear in our hobby is that the idea of "why should I pay for it, when it's free" will prevail, and ten years down the road our club will not exist, and with it goes this wonderful 'free' resource! When it all comes down to it... it's the price of a tank of gas.

Denny: One thing that you might be forgetting is the fact that the vast majority of the 9050 dudes on Chevy Chatter II are non-VCCA members and they are constantly receiving answers to their questions from many of us that are VCCA members.

Denny,
I too have seen your generous contributions to this site. As you can see, there is only a very small portion of the site that is restricted to members only. This is so the club can conduct business and talk with VCCA members without everyone else being privy to the information. As it has been so often pointed out, the site does belong to an organization who's members are dues payers. However, the rest of the site is available for free to all registered Chevy Chatter II members and that is where the bulk of the information that has anything and everything to do with old Chevys is located. That is a wealth of information available for free. Don't you think the club should have a small portion of the site that is dedicated to it and accessible to it's members only? Beamer

Without even condidering the unpaid time Bill and many others spend keeping this site up and running I don't believe that the hosting of this site is free. The $ comes from somewhere. I , for one, have never seen anyone denied information on restoration because they were not a VCCA member. I have never found a free lunch!
Richard

To put things into perspective, just yesterday I paid the renewal hosting fee for our site. It was $672 for the year. That's a heck of a bill in order for us to continue to provide a free service.

But the real value is fast-becoming the OTHER data that we have now in the new RESOURCE CENTER which is only available to members. Over time this should easily offset the price of membership for our folks -- AND allow us to continue to proved FREE Chat for the public enthusiast.

It's a win-win and entirely in keeping with the free-enterprise model. If you want "more", then you need to pay for it.

Sounds good Bill. I had no doubt you had everything getting set up, set up, going along the way it should etc. etc.


You're a great one to be in charge of all this....


Bill.

"I didn't know that it is VCCA policy to restrict information. Maybe you know something I don't."

Chipper, I found it to be astonishing but true that a non VCCA member cannot contribute a how to article with pictures to this forum. I recently completed a project that I wanted to describe for others who might be considering doing the same thing, converting a '36 Chevy from 4.11 gears to 3.55 using inexpensive OEM parts from street rodders.

Not only was I told that I couldn't make that contribution, I was called names like "Free loader" and others for even making the offer. It is hard to imagine how a guy offering to submit information could be viewed as seeking a free lunch but that's what some people think.

Ray

And here’s an example of one of the points that I was trying to make. I’m out in the barn working on my truck. So I decide to give the secret archives one more try. First thing I’m asked for is a code on the front of my G&D. So after running back into the house and getting a copy of the G&D to find the numbers then running back out to the barn to enter it all in the blank spaces, then filling out a half dozen forms and a half hours worth of jumping thru hoops, I still only get this!
http://vcca.org/members/index.php
I have no idea what I’m suppose to do with “this”, I just wanted to see what is hidden in the secret archives. Sure is something that after being a member for four years I still can’t find my way into the back room.
Dumb??? Sure you can call me dumb but that sure taint gonna help me and others like me that are starring down at the renewal notice in our hand for 2011.
What in the world is it that we have hidden so well that even members like me can’t find it?????
Dennis Graham
Sandwich, IL