VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Carburetor

Just wanted to let every one know that there is a W-1 carburetor for sale on e-bay. The add reads as follows. THIS IS A FLOWTEST FACTORY REBUILT W-1 CARTER CARB FOR 1932 TO 1936 CHEVYS IN THE ORIGINAL BOX NUMBER # CHEV 256 Item number: 150026026908
Is this carburetor better or worse then the 212s or 235s?

The 569S carburetor replacement has some advantages and some disadvantages compared with the 212S and 235S used on '32 passenger cars. A properly rebuilt 235S will give approximately the same performance and gas mileage ~18 mpg on the road, less around town. The 569S does not have the perculation or siphon problems of the earlier carbs. It is not perfect but a little more user friendly. However is is real easy to detect the difference in appearance of the carbs even when installed with an air cleaner.

Hey Chipper, Sure glad to see you survived the Grand Junction meet. When I had my 32 judged I had the 235S carburetor on the car and even though It was rebuilt, I have not gotten near the performance as I do with the 569S carburetor. The gas milage Is not my concern. The performance between the 212S and the 569S, Is like day and night. I put the 569S carb on when we got back from the meet and with the touring we are doing, It performs way way better then the 212S and 235S. I would say with the not so good performance of the 212S and the 235S, That going to the 569S replacement was and Is a good way to go with much much better performance In running the engine. Just my experienc of the different carburetors. Chipper, Sure glad your still kicking and your lucky, Theres only one of me. Cheers

The 569S has the 1/16" larger throttle bore, all the latest improvements etc.....but uses the leaner metering rod/jet , same as the 1941-48 cars used.The one on my '34 performs well but seems a bit lean untill completely "hot"....runs best with the choke pulled out about 1/8-1/4".Its seems a little "doggy" in the 20-40 MPG range....have always intended to install a richer jet/metering rod but never bothered.

The 569s Carter is basically a 574s with an early throttle arm. So what does that mean?

Comparing the 569s to the 235s (assuming both carburetors either NOS or professionally restored):

Idle circuit
The 569s wins hands-down. The idle circuit used in the original 1932 and 1933 carburetors was left over from the 1931 updraft design. The 569s will definately have a better idle, and better transition to the main metering circuit.

Main metering circuit
This would be a toss-up with the 235s winning by a nose on a stock engine. The 569s has a calibration for a 216 while the 235s is specifically calibrated for the 206. As the 569s carburetor has a slightly larger main venturi (1.25 vs 1.1875 inch); a modified 206 could see some additional power at WOT from the 569s.

Reliability, ease of restoration, cost of restoration, etc.
No contest, the 235s is not even a close second (runs third in a two-horse race!). The 569s enjoys all of the mechanical modifications which were done over the years. The 235s, in addition to the antiquated idle circuit, also has the intermediate shaft utilizing the zinc alloy "tower" for bearing surface, and the "2-screw" bowl cover which tends to warp profusely. A professional will sleeve the intermediate shaft which solves this issue, but the 2-screw bowl cover will warp; which changes the carburetor calibration.

Driveability
Around town the edge definately to the 569s. Highway - no difference.

Fuel economy
Around town the edge again to the 569s. Highway - no measurable difference.

Car show
The 569s should lose points as the appearance is totally incorrect. The 235s should lose no points.

Improving the performance of the 235s (or at least issues to check):
(A) the performance of the idle circuit may be maximized by installing a new idle tube, or if the old tube must be used; reform the seating upper diameter with the use of a sharp object, omit the copper o-ring gasket, and apply a drop of blue loctite to the threads to effect the seal.
(B) gently using heat and pressure, straighten the bowl cover.
(C) sleeve the bearing surface for the intermediate shaft.
(D) check for wear on the bearing surface of the intermediate shaft. Replace if worn beyond 0.003
(E) check for elongation of the hole in the throttle bracket controlling the pump/metering rod. Replace if the hole is elongated.
(F) check for wear on the pump operation rod end where it contacts the hole. Replace if worn.
(G) make absolutely certain that the correct metering rod/jet combination are used. The rod should be 75-60, the jet 120-23s.

Jon.

Jon:
With the helpful advice and parts from our frequent contributors I recently completed a proper rebuild of my 569S for my '35 Master. It works well now that I have the right metering rod and jet in it. I appreciate your comments and suggestions above but I am a little surprised by your comment about losing points as the appearance is incorrect. (The most obvious differences are the 3 screw air horn and the black paint). I realize this is pickings nits, but shouldn't a factory or dealer supplied replacement part be 'ding free' in a judged meet?
Coach

Coach - each judging authority makes their own standards. All of the judging authorities with which I have had any contact will ding "service replacement" type parts, at least at the national level.

As I am not a part of any Chevrolet judging authority, I should probably have stated that there are major differences in appearance, rather than that the 569s would lose points.

Both the 569s and the 235s were painted black, so no difference there. However the following are obvious differences:

(A) air horn (2 screw vs 3)
(B) bowl cover (2 screw vs 4)
(C) location of idle mixture control screw (top vs bottom of casting)
(D) 569s has plug for distributor vacuum on later engines
(E) choke control mechanism is different.

Again, I should probably have not mentioned losing points, as I have no input into the procedure, nor knowledge of the Chevrolet judging standards.

Jon.

Thanks for the information, Jon,I asked a question on another thread that was the very subject that you detailed here. Also to Gene for his info.

Also for you guys, if you haven't already discovered Jon's web site (The CarbuetorShop.com) This is the place where you can find the parts, repair kits, Carbs, and answers to almost any carb from 1912 to 1974 question as to numbers, repair kits.
Check it out.

here is a link The Carb. King\'s web page

MrMack - thank you, glad you enjoy our site.

Jon.

I agree with Jon on the carbs. With proper fitting of low speed jet (aka idle tube) the idling of the 212S or 235S is awful close to the performance of the later 569S. Takes someone with a level of experience. There are a couple of other tricks to make sure that the critical gas tight seals are obtained.

Lowering the float will reduce the tendency to percolate or syphon. The metering rod used in the 212S is definately too rich. Replacement with the 235S or even one step leaner is an improvement at least near sea level.

An important lesson is to make sure that the person rebuilding the carb has sufficient experience and expertise to produce a first quality job. Many claim the destinction but often their efforts are de stink thing.

I shore do agree about the Carter W1, I attacked one or two when I was a bit younger and full of P & V but it didn't take me too long to realize that I was a Rochester fan, well anyway when it comes to being a rebuilder, a Rochester "B" has been one I do know about and one I can make do what I want it to, idle, accelerate smoothly and wind out while getting some good miles/gallon but I have also studied it throughly and understand what it does, but a Quadrajet and the W-1 is like a big mystery to me. The last W-1 Id had more gasoline running out and down the outside of the manifold than ever squirted down the hatch!

Thanks Jon. I didn't mean to stir up a controversy...just wanted to get a clarification. I am enjoying the car for what it is...as accurate as I can make it and still make it fun to drive.
Coach

Its very difficult to detect the 569S on a 1934-36.My '34 has been judged over a dozen times and it was never noticed.However there are more differences on the 1932-33 that are easy to detect.
Coach - it would be considered incorrect as it was not what was on the car when delivered from the dealer.

One other comment here that has been touched upon by both Chipper and myself, and is true for all W-1 (and W-2) carburetors:

The low speed jet (idle tube) seals at the upper end by turning into a TAPERED hole. As the jet is tightened at the bottom, the upper end is compressed by the tapered hole and forms the upper seal. This is critical on the W-1 or W-2 for a good idle.

If you read the original Carter service literature, you will read NEVER re-use a low speed jet (they do not tell you why). Now you know why. However, the low speed jet may be re-used IF you take a sharp object (an ice-pick will suffice) and roll the upper end to increase the outside diameter so when compressed a seal can again be formed. As a professional rebuilder, we use new low speed jets; but the hobbyist can often minimize this expense by using the technique described above.

And no, Chevrolet did not use the larger W-2 carb, but the W-2 was made.

Jon.

Chipper,

I will be searching for a spare carburetor for a 32. If I happen to find a suitable 569S for a spare, other than the fact that it doesn't look the same as my 212S (235S), is there any other differences such as throttle linkage or manual choke cable location, etc, that I need to consider before choosing a spare carburetor?