VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Upholstery - Interiors & Glass Hamilton Coach --OMG

If you have the only game in town,_________.

The other day I said I never had a problem with Hampton Coach products. Well, today I have. I ordered front and rear carpet for our 54 BelAir Sedan. The carpet is fine but there are no gromets for the dimmer switch hole or the gas pedal.

I called them and they do not carry them. In my case I have the old ones to use. I wanted new ones with the new carpet.

Also if you order carpet from them you will need to order the jute backing as it does not come with the carpet.

If you have old ones hang onto them.

the interior is all I have left to do. I glued a headliner in a 56 pickup and replaced the seat covers in my 85.... that's it for my upholstery experience. I'm reading stuff that has me concerned.

Having a decent instruction for interior installation would be very long and hard to put into writing,taking pics of the interior before and during disassembly would be the best thing to do and mark every part removed. I can understand wanting to do it your self but experience is what gets it done and looking good and most lack experience in interiors so its time for the professionals,even the professionals will have a hard time since most have not done vehicles as old as ours and the ones that do have the experience working on the old ones are too old to work or have been pushing up daisies for years now. Shop manuals should have been made with more inerior repair info but when they were printed they put enough info for warranty repairs not complete interior restorations,its just going to be trial and error on installing the interior kits unless you know someone who worked on these old vehicles back in the day. I have been doing interiors for 23 years and there are a bumnch of older vehicles I have never seen let alone repaired so sometimes its hard for me to work on them. Jeff

One thing I forgot to mention that the materials are not made the same now as when the cars were new so they are not going to have the same feel and wear so dont even think about getting the same quality as when the vehicles were new,I have seen the quality go down in the 23 years I have been in the interior buisness. Jeff

I ordered a new headliner kit, panel kit, seat kit, and trunk kit from Hampton Coach about a month ago for my 38 master coupe. It came a couple weeks ago, and (with the help of a friend) I just finished installing the seat kit. Given the length and interest in this thread, I thought I would write to give an up-to-date report on the actual facts about the Hampton Coach instructions, etc.

My kits looked very much like the picture posted by Bill above. They came in two large boxes. All (or most) of the parts are labeled on the back with abbreviations that correspond to an abbreviations/terminology sheet that is included. The materials, while not being EXACT copies of the original in every case, are of high quality and well made. I'm not so certain that the colors are precisely like the originals because my original, while there and all complete, have obviously faded, etc., over the last 70 years.

Now the facts about the "instructions." For the 37-38 coupe, I received a xeroxed packet a pages containing a total of 19 pages. This includes a list of contents, some general information about protection of panels and use of adhesives, a list of abbreviations, instructions for blind nailing, headliner installation, windlace installation, and more general instructions specific to the years 1937 and 38. Of the 19 total pages, 6 are mostly hand-drawn illustrations showing installation of windlace, wireon, seat and back cushion, and button installation.

It would appear from previous posts that HC has perhaps tried to "beef up" their instructions a bit in recent years. Still, the descriptions are rather spartan, terse, and often enigmatic. Unfortunately, they sometimes contain internal contradictions (e.g., the verbal description about seat/back cushions doesn't correspond precisely with things shown in the illustrations). I also noticed that some of their installation techniques obviously do not mirror exactly the original installation techniques. Some of this is due to oversight, but some is certainly due to the fact that it would be almost impossible to accomplish at home the same techniques used in the factory.

The biggest complaint for the do-it-yourselfer would certainly be that the instructions are very bare-bones, without much explication or illustration of specific steps. E.g.: INSTALL COVERING ON SEAT FRAME A.Parts of seat frame may be padded by gluing thin foam or cotton on areas to be covered with material. B. Center seat frame and upholstery on ends and tack or staple in place. C. Tack small covered filler panels on inside lower ends of frame near curved corner.

That's it!! If you're lucky enough as I was to have the old materials at hand and to have disassembled them yourself, you will probably be ok. Even then, you will need to read, re-read, re-think each step time and again to make sure it will all work.

The seat is now finished and it came out pretty nice, even nicer that I had anticipated. I believe that the headliner and windlace installation will be more difficult, both because the instructions aren't that great and also because I removed these pieces from the car last summer, and although I took some pictures, I'm not sure I'll remember all the details of the way everything was put together.

My friend and I commented that perhaps I should volunteer to re-write, or at least supplement the instructions for installation as I go along; then propose to HC that they remunerate me for this service by offering me a discount or some sort of deal for further purchases from their catalogue. I'm half-tempted to try that, but I'm not sure I've got the time or am that eager to do what would amount to a fairly large and time-consuming job for what I'm sure would be a rather small recompense.

At any rate, I thought the group would be interested in hearing a recent update on this issue. Bottom line is that, if you've got some handyman ability, patience, AND your old pieces, you can do this yourself. In fact, it was a pretty darned big job just to do the seat (and to get the buttons correct, etc.). I would imagine that to hire a professional upholsterer would have run hundreds of dollars, maybe even more. And while a professional probably would have done it a bit better, I am pretty satisfied with the way it came out.

One final update on price. The total for the headliner, panel, seat, and trunk kits ran about $2200. With that size order, they offered free shipping (which probably would have run another $50-100).

I hope this report is helpful to someone out there, who is contemplating ordering and installing a Hampton Coach interior.

Yours,

Jim

An article for G&D would be very helpful to many VCCA members regarding your HC upholstery experience.

Enjoy the ride,
Michael41

At the 6 cylinder tour held in Rutland VT a few years ago a presentation was put on by a gentleman by the name of Petter Davidsen. He is in the upholstery business having worked for "Hampton Coach". Also working with him is a person who made many of the patterns for Hampton. Neither of them are close to retirement age yet probably have more experience and knowledge of the business than one could imagine, however I think it would be a lifetime task to write complete instructions for the thousands of patterns that Hampton has.They supply the materials that match the originals as best they can,but most original materials are long gone.I think the only way to develop better instructions would be for someone to write them as a kit is being installed.I believe the original owner started out by simply making a copy(pattern) of an interior as he was replacing one for a customer.He probably never envisioned that these interiors would one day be sold world wide.Especially by a company that specializes in the "other" brand.

I agree with most of the comments here. I installed the HC kit for my 32 Sport Coupe a few years ago.

I also found the instructions to be somewhat generic and was totally lost at times. As an example, I followed the seat instructions for a 4dr rather than a coupe. I was lucky in that most of my original seat fabric was still in place and prior to removing it I marked all the fabric end locations on the original wood frame. I just used the HC fabric supplied and forget the instructions.

That was also typical for most of the panels supplied with the kit.

I can not imagine HC suppling specific instructions for each kit it makes, but I agree that they ought to supply better ones considering the cost of the kits.

On there Web Site they may want to start a blog area where do-it-your-selfers can log on and post questions or get expert advice.

I don't think the VCCA should offer any help directly to HC. Instead we should contact them directly as a group.

I dont see how they could put more specific instructions since every year and model are different so they put in gemeric instructions to get you started,paying attention during disassembly is the key and if its apart for many years the memory fails so time for pics. For those who buy vehicles that someone else took apart mI feel for you and its time to look at complete vehicles at shows to see how everything goes or buy a parts car that is complete if possible as you know something always is lost.

"I don't think the VCCA should offer any help directly to HC".
I disagree with the above statement.Offering help as a "club" may not be a good use of our resources ,however as individuals there is a great amount of talent and especially knowledge amongst our members.Not only would it benefit HC but also our members (their customers) which I believe is part of the mission of VCCA.Simply informing them of concerns expressed in this post would be a help.Customer feedback is important to a manufacturer and as a group I feel it will have greater impact.

I have been following this thread with great interest. There is a reason why people make a living as automotive upulsterers. When you buy a gallon of paint is there specific detailed instructions on how to shoot the car? When you buy an engine rebuild kit are there specific instuctions on how to use it? My best friend is an upulsterer he never looks at the instructions and everything is perfect! He did serve an apprenticeship and does it for a living. My point is don't presume it is easy to do just bcause they sell you the kit. If you are spending $4,000 for a kit why not spend another $1,500 to have it installed right! If the pro does not need the instructions and it comes out perfect then why is there a problem.

Every man must know their limitations
John

I also have followed this thread and have a little different viewpoint. Yes, there definitely are reasons why people make a living as automotive upholsterers. I have used several over the years some were good and matched the original reasonably well. Others, well let me just say they might do excellent work on customs and boats but not old Chevys. Others I would not trust with my bar stools. I paid big $$ to have a top duplicated, even supplied the original top in fair condition as a pattern/example, gave explicit instructions, photos of another installed original top and the guy still did in HIS way. And then doubled his "estimate" in final cost. He came highly recommended by several knowledgeable old car people. Guess you are lucky to have a friend that does it right.

Another view is that many of us want to do as much of the restoration as possible. We either educate ourselves often assisted by formal schooling, ask questions of the professionals and consult with other restorers. If you look there are many places to find instructions on painting a car. Even more on engine rebuilding. Even a few on automotive upholstery. No there are not instructions on the fabric (similar to the paint can). or engine rebuild kit (contains standard parts similar in all engines). But the upholstery kit contains parts and pieces that are nearly impossible to determine where they are installed. I have heard of professionals that can't figure out where parts fit and guess wrong so additional fabric or parts need to be purchased. I have had it happen twice!

So it is good business to provide at least rudimentary installation instructions. If enough people have bad experiences with a supplier that supplier will be out of business.

When I was rebuilding my 31 sport coupe the interior was in bad shape do to the fire that it had gone through. I had some pictures of what was left and contacted a local "old timer" upholster. He came out to my house and told me how much fabric and lacing to order. I ordered all the material from HC. My guy went by my pictures and instructions and the car came out looking like a brand Chevy off the line. He also did my rumble seat and roof material. It was much easier for me to do it this way after reading all the stoies here on the chat site about HC instructions. I was lucky to find this guy with over fifty years of experience.

The VCCA magazine should consider enlisting the aid of a volunteer experienced upholster and perhaps in a series of articles, several photos,and listings of tricks of the trade we might create a few neophyte amateur antique auto upholsters within the club membership.
In the Feb 2009 SKINNED KNUCKLES Magazine there is a pretty good article on how to rebuild a back seat. It looks like in following magazines SKINNED KNUCKLES will be having an article on how to cover the seat and maybe even another article on headlining.
You can also rent How to Do It DVD's from SmartFlix ( on the Internet). I rented a few and I am teaching myself rudimentary upholstery (and to think ...a few months ago I couldn't even spell apollstirree!)For every mistake I make I learn not to repeat it the "next time". One stitch at a time...

MikeyBoy has some good suggestions. As I said in my post earlier, a blog on the HC site or even posted help here would benefit our fellow members that choose to do it themselves. Many of us that completed our cars would help if anyone posted a specific question.

In my opinion, many of the members located in remote parts of the country can not find or easily get to an "old timer" that knows these cars. A lot of us located on the East or West coast can find upholstry guys to peform the work but it's going to cost you dearly when most of these guys charge by "time and material". I can't see paying labor costs while the experienced guy tries to figure out the job if the car has no interior left in it.

if anyone is stuck with one of these kits, send me a message and i can walk you through it. ive never bought a kit, i make my own, but all are the same in general when it comes to installing it. so im here to help if anyone needs it

Part of the fun of owning an old car is being able to work on it yourself.It sounds like most of the posters have the extra cash to just send it out and have a pro do it.I bought my car to enjoy driving it and also work on it myself.If these instructions are this bad, the company must be notified.I do have the money to go to a professional but I would get more satisfaction doing it myself!!!!Of course with good instructions.

[quoteIf these instructions are this bad, the company must be notified] [/quote]

Hampton Coach has been notified many times over the years but apparently they have no desire to make a detailed set of instructions for their existing and future customers.

i'm in agreement with the junkyard dog. hampton has no intentions of improving their instructions(which suck) and phone calls to their tech advisors are unproductive. mike

The problem with companies like that is they have people who just know how to make the product and not install it,there are probably only a couple people in the whole company who are upholsterers and unfortunately are not the one who answers the phone on the tech line.

Years and years ago Hampton Coach had a lot of tech. expertise and they were more willing to help with questions regarding upholstery installation and etc. At that time they also had a lot more authentic upholstery materials as well. Unfortunately, Hampton Coach was bought out by the Ford dudes and.....well.....the rest is history.

I been in the Upholstery trade for almost 25 years and have been watching it die for the last few years,nobody wants to do it and it takes the shops around here a long time to find someone who will. Most of the old timers are retired or dead and hardly any of the younger crowd wants to learn so whoever they have making the kits are most likely there just for a paycheck now. As for the authentic materials,they have been used up and due to maufacturing cost are probably not being made anymore so if anyone wants 100 percent originality you better forget about it and use whats close. If there is not enough demand I see alot of material not being reproduced now so I dont know what is going to happen but its not like it used to be and get used to it since its never going back to the way it was years ago.

I'm a little hesitant now about purchasing a new interior kit.

If you buy a kit just take your time and take plenty of pics before you tear it apart,they are not just for anyone to install and takes some knowledge of interiors and mechanical ability to do it right. If someone has a vehicle that was purchased apart go to plenty of shows and take pics of original cars if possible and look them over closely to see where everything goes,one would think that a company that makes the kits would have a few that actually know how to install them but it would be hard to describe over the phone or put down in writing.