VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 enough spark? 36

Regarding the oil pump, no I'm not concerned that there's any problem with that. I did pre-oil the engine as you said, and also put some cam lube (a thicker grease) on the cam lobes.

With the flywheel being out of position will not affect how the engine runs but you wont be able to use a timing light to set the timing, just use your good ear.
Tony

When I was in auto shop 60+ years ago, we had to install a
distributor, time the engine with No1 at TDC, make sure the
rotor was in the correct position relative to No 1 wire. We
had a test engine on a stand that the instructor had bugged.
If everything was correct, and the distributor was positioned
with the points closed but at the point of breaking just as the
rotor was turned clockwise, the engine was in time. In order
to pass the course one of us had to hand crank the engine. We
did have a few sore arms, but I was the designated cramker and our engine started! I guess I learned, I remember it today like it was yesterday! Good luck, Phil

Jo, are you going to use a 12 volt system with this car? without a resistor to drop the 12 volts to 6 volts at the coil won't you be putting a strain on the coil and distributor? Why not use the 6 volt system with a good strong 6 volt battery? Have you disconnected the dash instruments (fuel gage) when you are using the 12 volt battery? Just curious......

Mr. Mack, we had a long discussion here about starting a freshly rebuilt engine. I have a new, strong 6v battery, and it barely turns it over unless the plugs are out. That's with an overhauled starter also. According to most advisers on the site, a 12 volt battery is the way to go, as long as you don't leave it on too long, disconnecting it after it starts. Some have said that they used 2 12 volt batteries to start it. In my case, I'm using a new, 890 cranking amp 12 volt battery with a starter/charger that provides another 80amps in start mode.

Since I'm still in reassembly, I still don't have all the gauges attached, just the ammeter, and no lights. I don't think it matters much with the starter, but from experience, I can tell you that the ignition coil can be damaged. While trying to get the valve timing set, I forgot to turn the ignition key off, and I started smelling something burning. The original ignition coil was boiling out, and smoking. I think I had left it on for maybe 5 minutes. I have a new one on order, and will try again, being a bit more careful to turn off the key in between attempts to start. I haven't seen any evidence that this caused any damage to the distributor, but I think I had a weak ignition coil to begin with.

Once the engine is broken in, I'm assuming that the 6v battery will work just fine.

I have used 12 volts many times to start an engine with 6 volts without any ill effects. You may have cooked the coil,
but more likely you only burnt the points. What I usually
try to do is put 12 volts to the starter only and try to
isolate the ign system to only 6 volts. Another way to do it
is once the engine is cranking on 12 volts turn on the ign
and remove the 12 volts as soon as the engine fires. I have
seen burnt points much more often than burnt out coils. Check
the point contact surfaces for burning or discoloration. Phil

Thanks, Phil. Making progress... Now that I have a new ignition coil, I isolated the coil from the 12 volt battery as you suggested. Just the 6 volt on the ignition switch and coil. That allowed me to use the heavy cable from the battery to the starter for the 12volt battery, and man, what a difference. I think my jumper cables were just too small to deliver the amps needed. It now turns over VERY fast, and I now have a nice blue spark at the plug. But, still no BANG.

I'm now looking at the carb to see if that may be contributing to the problem. I rebuilt it during the disassembly, so it's possible something may be wrong with it. Fuel pump is shooting lots of gas to the carb. Could it possibly just be old gas? I filled the tank last year, and it has been sitting since then. But I thought it would at least be good enough to get it started. Tried shooting some starter fluid down the throat of the carb, but it didn't do any good. Plugs look too dry for all the starting attempts.

From my experiance the gas should still be OK. If it dosen't "pop" with the starting fluid it is not the fuel supply or the carburetor.
I would still suggest moving the distributor around a bit - with out removing it.

Now that you have good spark, and the distributor is positioned to fire No 1 when crank is at TDC it should start.My next step would be to make sure the valves are not
set too tight. A compression test will answer that, compression should be 100 to 120 PSI, and if that's OK check
the spark plugs to make sure they aren't fouled. Between all that cranking
and gasoline and starting fluid they could be fouled. If you don't have a
spark plug cleaner another way to clean them is to place the plugs in a heat
proof metal receptical (vice) with the electrodes facing up and apply heat
with a propane (Berns-omatic) torch till the center porcelain tip is glowing
hot. Allow adequate time for them to cool down, regap, and install. The
engine should now either start or at least give pop. I strongly recommend
having a fire extinguisher nearby when cranking the engine. usually a good
timing light will help you get the dist in the proper position. You may find
it easier to do if you have a helper! Good luck, Phil Shoot me an e-mail
if you feel you need more help, or I can give you my cell No. millnphil@yahoo.com

Remember when you squirt the starting fluid down the carb, give it a good squirt....the choke needs to be open (off) and the throttle needs to be open. With the choke off and throttle open squirt the starting fluid down into the carb, pull out the choke and give the footfeed a couple of pumps, key on and CRANK with the starter. As soon as the engine starts ,or if it don't start open the choke and try it again. If the engine fails to start then, check for an obstruction in the intake, valve adjustment and obstruction in the exhaust. If you have frosted the sparkplugs or soaked them by flooding the engine, try cranking it with the footfeed peddle to the metal to get the engine unflooded. But you probably already know all this stuff......

Thanks, guys. I tested the compression with plugs out, and it's about 100 on each cylinder. I decided to make sure about the timing marks before going any further. A little extra work to pull the radiator and harmonic balancer to get the timing cover off, but worth it for peace of mind. The marks are aligned, as you can see in the photo. Click on "timing marks".

Timing marks

However, I discovered another problem that was not the fault of the shop. I drained the oil, and found lots of coolant in it. I was proceeding to disassemble enough so I could take the head off to check for a leaky head gasket, and found that the brass fitting for the oil line that goes through the block was leaking coolant. I replaced the line myself, so not the fault of the shop. It leaks at the point where it exits the block near the push rods. It apparently was draining down into the pan from here for a while, as there was some corrosion at the bottom of the push rod cover and gasket. Tightening the fitting didn't fix it, so I used some Permatex teflon cement on the threads, and retightened. Will fill it with coolant tomorrow after it dries. In retrospect, maybe I'm lucky it hasn't started yet.

Phil, if I'm still stuck after all is back together, I may send you an email and get your phone number. I appreciate the offer.

Randy, did you correct the problems and get It started? Please give us an update.
Richard

Richard,
Had to leave town for the 4th of July weekend. Will get back on this next week. I pulled out the copper oil line through the block, and will temporarily just plug both ends until I verify if there are any other coolant leaks. I'd like to avoid pulling the head if I can.

Finally got it to fire! After fixing the coolant leak problems, I put everything back together. 12 volt battery on the starter only, 6 volt battery on the ignition switch/coil. A little starting fluid and gas in the carb throat. She started right up! It's running kind of rough with some backfiring, so I think I just need to adjust the timing a bit. But getting it going again made my day. I have some smoke coming out of the vents of the valve cover. I assume that's from backfiring?

"smoke" from the valve cover vents would be normal for several reasons.
Just rotate the distributor around and find the spot where it runs the best.
Running rough - I would reset (or at least check) the valve clearences with the engine running.
Back-firing could be the timing way off or intake valves not closing because they are adjusted too tight.

Thanks Gene. Just set the timing with a timing light, and #1 is right on the timing mark. Running much smoother at low idle, but still with a little backfire every 10-20 sec. Will re-adjust valves.

While it idles ok now, when I throttle it past about 1/3, it starts running rough and dies out. Sound like carb problem?

Making progress!

Did you check the accelerator pump in your carburetor to make sure it is working when you depress the gas pedal?

I was just reading about that in the Chevy Six book. It's on the agenda for tomorrow. I installed a new carb kit in it after disassembly of the car, but haven't checked this after putting the carb back on. What do I look for? Do I just take off off the cover and see that the plunger moves as I depress the pedal?

Nope! With the air cleaner off, look down the air horn of the carburetor and pull up on the throttle linkage. You should see some gas squirt into the venturi of the carburetor.

Thanks a bunch guys! Gene, you were right on with the valve adjustment. Since I had the engine up to temperature, I went back and tightened the cylinder head bolts (still ok) and rocker arm assembly bolts (loose!). Then readjusted valve clearances cold. I left them a little loose for now (.010 intake, .015 exhaust). It's running like a top! This also fixed the acceleration problem, and there's just some minor backfiring when I rev the engine. I'll readjust the valves hot later.

I'm pretty excited about this, and can't thank you guys enough. I'm going to have to make a short video, and post.

Video of start up:
Video link

Fired right up! Way to go Randy.

Dan

Congrats Randy! Another Chevy is ready to hit the road!

You might want to go back and read Chev Nut's post and take a look at the timing. If you have it set right on the timing mark it may run but try advancing the timing (loosen the octane selector and twist the distributor) until it smooths out. The original setting was for gas that had much lower octane than today's fuel, so 6 to 8 degrees of advance can be used to make her run even smoother...and may help with the backfiring issue.

One more thought. The more I use my car the better she runs. So drive it like you stole it and enjoy it!

Good job Randy! I'll bet It is a real relief hearing It run.
Richard