VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 1927 wood spoke wheels

Hey guys and gals
got these for fun, do they look like they would fit my 27 chevy if so need 2 more. They would look great on the wall also.
Thanks in advance
Ken 45145

Ken,

They look like 27 wheels to me. The photo is a bit dark, but they seem to have the long slots in the rim for the Jaxon clamps which, I think, were first used about 1926. I cannot pick from the photo whether they are front or back wheels - if back, check that they are not cracked along the corner of the keyway before you put them on the car. In my experience this is a common fault, and while not dangerous (because the crack always stops at the hub flange) they cannot be properly seated on the axle taper, and will eventually work loose with possible key and axle damage.

Frank.

Measure the width, if 2 1/2 inches they are 1927 and older. The 1928 is easy to identify as they are 3 inches across.

I would not choose to use the wood spokes on the 1927 if it is a closed car. You will feel more safe on the disc wheels.

Hi guys and gals
here are more pics, 2 1/2 inch measure what dimension width of rim ? is brake drum different on wood spoke?

thanks in advance
Ken 45145

Brake drums are different than disc wheels

26/7 disk wheel brake drums are different from wood wheel brake drums, but the complete wheels with correct brake drum for the wheel type are interchangeable for those cars - a 26/7 front wheel (no brake drum) won't fit on a 28 stub axle though.

The 2 1/2" dimension is the width of the felloe. The wheel in the last two photos is a 26 or 27 wheel. The front wheels on the 28s were fitted with a brake drum and the 28 felloes, as mentioned by a previous poster, were 3" wide so a wider tire could be fitted.

Frank

Hey Guys and Gals
more rookie questions,
so the front spindle on the 27 will work on either wheel wood or metal?
back needs different drum.
rear wood spoke wheels have spline inside hub for drive axle front do not?

thanks in advance
Ken 45145

Either hub (spoke or disc) will work on the front wheel of a 1927 and older.

On the rear wheel the spoke and disc have different drums which must be matched to the correct one.

Front axle also has a spline and uses a square key like the rear.

Guys and Gals

what is the fastest way to tell if its front wheel or rear with wood spoke?

thanks in advance
Ken 45145

If it looks like it has never had a brake drum attached it will be the front. The rear spoked wheel will either show evidence of a drum or still have a drum attached.

A front drum will have a curved lip and has the inside machined for a brake shoe. The rear drum will have a sharp lip and will be machined on both sides.

The top wheel above in the picture appears to be a front. A close inspection of the bolts will tell the tail.

Quote:

"what is the fastest way to tell if its front wheel or rear with wood spoke?"

If the hubs are in the wheels the fronts have housings for ball bearings as in your photo above. On the back wheels the hub is tapered with a keyway. There are no bearings in a 26/27/28 back hub.

If the hubs are missing from 26/27 wheels, the hole in the middle of the wheel for the hub will be 1 3/4" diameter for a back wheel and 2 3/8" for a front wheel.

Frank

any thoughts on these are they rear and for what car

thanks in advance

Ken 45145

Ken,

The top one is almost certainly a front hub, since it has the housings for ball bearings (see my post above). Can't see the back of the second one to be sure, but from the way it is sitting in the photo it is probably also a front hub. They don't look to me to be 26/27 Chevrolet though. You could check the diameter of the spoke seat (posted above) to see if they might fit, but if it was me,I would be looking for known hubs of the correct years.

Also be aware that if you get wooden wheels without hubs, the hubs from disk wheels, even the same year, will not fit - the hole spacing for the hub bolts is different and the wheel offset from the hub is different, so wood wheels cannot be modified to fit the disk wheel hubs. You would need the correct hubs for wood wheels.

Frank

Hi guys and gals
any pics of rear spoke wheel hubs with or without drum ?
I have evolved my thoughts to the point of thinking that the rear wood spoke hub would have no bearings as the bearings would be in the brake drum. I am trying to visualize the spoke to drum connection, during my break from work, much overtime right now.

Thanks
Ken 45145

Ken,

The bearings for the back wheels are in the axle housing, not the wheel. The back hub only has a tapered hole which matches the taper on the back axle. The weight of the car is taken on the axle, and from there by the bearing in the back axle housing. If you are unlucky enough to break a back axle (rare) you will lose the wheel!

There is a keyway in the hub which matches the one on the axle. The key between the axle and the hub provides the drive from the axle to the wheel hub, and the six hub bolts transfer the drive to the spokes. The round tenons on the spoke ends transfer the drive to the felloe, and one of the rim bolts transfers it to the rim and tire via the fitting which allows you to lock the two ends of the rim in place after changing a tire.

The brake drum is held on by the six hub bolts, and is actually part of the hub, because the spokes are sandwiched between the brake drum and the hub flange. It has no bearings, but is solid with the wheel.

I do have some photos of (cracked) back hubs but cannot access them at the moment - they are on another computer. If you PM me an e-mail address I'll try to send you a couple when I can get at tho other hard disk (hopefully I will remember!).

Frank

Added after seeing Arend's photos: His third photo of the wheel with the back hub showing the keyway should help to make the difference between the front hubs which you have, and the back hubs easier to recognize. In that photo you are looking at the small end of the tapered hole in the hub, i.e the outside of the wheel.

Frank.

Maybe these pictures of my 26 wheels will help. The brake drum bolts directly to the back of the hub. The six bolts go through the hub, the spokes, and the drum. The nuts are inside the drum and were riveted after being screwed on to make sure they didn't come loose. The rear bearings are inside of the axle housing and have nothing to do with the brake drum.

Guys and Gals
Thank you for all of your help on this matter. Your guidance has saved me the time required to figure it out myself, could have been huge. Thanks.

on the side anyone know the maker of the winged hubcap on the hubs without spoke? Or yr of hub. Thanks.

Also looking to buy a set of rear spoke wheels with drum, will pay top dollar, send private message if you like.

As for now will put them on the wall

Ken 45145

Hi,



The hubcap you reference is an aftermarket hubcap. Note the - in the cap and no Chevrolet emblem. For more info on early hubcaps go to my article on the caps in the recent G&D.

Gentlemen and Ladies

Anyone know where to gets spokes for these wheels? are front spokes same as rear spokes?

thanks for all of your help fellow members
Ken 45145

The best spokesman around is Jim Kanne. (503) 638-5275
jayemkanne@comcast.net
He is in West Linn Oregon

Calimerswheelshop.com Located in Southwest PA.

Thanks
Woodbutcher

Guys and Gals
would the tire and rim from a disc fit a spoke rim?

thanks
Ken 45145

Yes, but no interchangeability between a 1928 and older. The 1928 is 3" and prior is 2 1/2" rim.

In 1927 were wood wheels standard and disc wheels optional? I was told many years ago that all Canadian cars had wood wheels and US ones had steel discs. All the local cars I have seen around Saskatchewan have had wood wheels. But from the above posts wood wheels must have been available in the US too. Anyone have any knowledge of this?

Depending on the year and the model, generally disc wheels were standard, and wood spoke were available for $25.00, which included the balloon tires for the disc.

Specifically, the 1927 cars had the wood spoke wheels as standard on the Roadster, Touring, and Coach. The Coupe, Sedan and Landau had steel disc wheels.

The $25.00 option applied to the 1927 also.

I am not sure about Canada, however it think it was almost a change of 180 degrees.

Thanks, that clears things up!!

Guys and Gals

Got some rear spokes with drums and they came with rims on no tires. Now the stupid question, how does one remove the rim? All clamps and bolts are removed and they do not want to come off the wheel.
Thank god I never had to change a flat on my 27 I assumed removal of clamps would release rim and rim would slide right off.
Now I see in my Dykes instruction page 598 15th edition that it does in fact slip right off, something may be rusted together.
please help.
Thanks in advance
Ken 45145

Well !!!
answered my own question. a few wacks with a 10 pound hammer they came right off. time to evaluate.
Are the rear wheels wider than front? front measure 2.25 wide and rear that I have measure 2.75, is that a 28 rim?
thanks
Ken 45145

Pre 27 are 2 1/2 across the inside of the rim. The 28 is a full 3 inches across the inside of the rim. The 28 rim is split and uses the 440/450 X 21 tire. Other than trucks, the front and rear are the same size.

Second thought. The 28 rim will not fit the 27 disc wheel and vice-a-versa. The keeper will not be drawn up against the rim and hold it on.

Guys and Gals
note one wheel is wider, is this 1927 and 1928. beat up one is rear. is rear wheel width always same as front for that application? if it is would 1928 rear wheel fit 1927 axle and rear end and I then would just install 1928 tire and rim? I was told it (older rim beat up etc) was from a 1927 chevy. Is 1927 Chevy truck rim same? I was told car and 1/2 ton truck same wheel. 1 ton truck is different?



thanks
Ken 45145

more information for possible identification

Ken, go back and read some of your answers and if you still have questions, then please ask them.

Ken,

The black front wheel in your photo of the two wheels side by side looks like a 26/27 wheel. Provided that the rusty back wheel is 21" diameter, it is probably a 28 wheel. If it is 20" diameter it is probably a 29.

Yes, a 28 back wheel will fit a 26/27 axle - the hubs are the same. Front wheels are not interchangable between 26/27 and 28 though.

26/27 cars here are usually fitted with 450-21 tires. 28s here usually are fitted with 5.25-21 tires, which are both wider (to suit the wider 28 rim) and about 1 1/2" bigger in diameter. Although probably not recommended, it would be better to fit a 4.50-21 tire to a 28 wheel used on a 27 to maintain the same tire cross section and wheel diameter than to use the larger tire. When I bought my 26 one of the back wheels was a 28 wheel fitted with a
4.50-21 tire, and I know another owner who ran 4.50-21s all round on his 28 with no problems "because he already had them".

If you are really stuck and have access to a fair sized lathe and have the necessary hubs, it is quite feasible to convert a wood spoked 26/27 back wheel to a 26/27 front wheel and vice versa. The same goes for 28 wheels, but you can't convert a 28 wheel to a 26/27 wheel.

Frank

Guys and Gals

do these look like 1927 1/2 ton spokes and if so are they the same as the car spokes for 1927 ?



Thanks everyone
Ken 45145

Just for information. Down here in Australia, the standard wheel supplied on ope cars (95% of our cars were open) is wood spoke panted black, 1st option was wood spoke varnished and 2nd option was disk.
Chris