VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Radial Tire question

Does VCCA give a deduction for Metric Radials on a vehicle of the age before Metric but when radial were optional on new vehicles?

A point deduction is in order for any tire size or type that was not originally installed at the factory. It is unfair to a person that has the original size and type on their Chevy if a point deduction is not considered by the judges.

Hello in Ohio,


Let me shed some light on this topic.
First, there are several cases where the tire size for a specific model Chevrolet are not being produced or reproduced.
A good example would be the alphanumeric sizes such as GR78-15.

The only choice you will have is to use a Pmetric size that is equivalent.

Radials were standard on ALL 1975 model Chevrolets. Radials were first used in the 1974 model year on specific models.

There is a mandatory 20 pt deduction for incorrect radial tires or 4 pts each. There are other minor deductions for incorrect white wall width or overall tire condition.

With that being said, and it is documented in the Judging Manual - when judging I have never given a deduct for the Alphanumeric/Pmetric argument IF the tires are not available.
If more than one vehicle was in the same class and the correct tires were on one of the vehicles, then a deduct would be taken since it is the only fair way to address the situation.
I have seen several letters from tire mfgs stating the lack of availability of specific sizes and the well informed vehicle owner should have a letter such as this, when their vehicle is on the judging field.

At some point, I would anticipate that the Alphanumeric will become available in the reproduction tire arena.

Thank you Oliver. I suspected about what you say. I was having our 74 Nova judged once. I pointed out that radials were an option that year. The judge said yes, but they were not metric. That was in AACA. I never did see the judging form. I did receive a Second Place for an un-restored original car so I was pleased with that.

With all due respect, it is my opinion that the AACA judging has quite a bit to be desired when compared to VCCA.

Bottomline - they do not return judging sheets - so the owner has no idea of what areas "may need" some improvements to increase the level of the vehicle.

They are also in love with "lots of gloss black" paint on parts that may not even be painted.

Not too many unrestored originals out there....and the focus on them is increasing.

It has been my experience with VCCA Judging that not much can be learned from the return of the judging form. I have had one of our cars judged for several years at several different meets. My score was within five or ten points every time. The problem is the deduction is almost always something different. I'm not complaining about the awards received just stating a fact of judging. I have received 1st Junior, 1st Senior, Best of Show, and preservation but the deductions are always something different.

I agree Back Roads that each time I have had the Judging Form returned, the judging forms often point out different point deductions. What I have often seen though is that the Judging Form Deductions are often correct. Sometimes a problem with my car gets ignore or a problem is missed, but then they see it the next time. Judges are volunteers and most try the best they can. If anything, the VCCA judges are too generous and kind with their point deductions. I appreciate the fact that judging forms are returned to the owner. I have corrected some of my mistakes after the forms are returned to me.

dtm
ps. The system is not perfect, but without hiring professional judges, it is very fair.

agree with ollie's take on aaca judging. by returning the judging sheets to the owner,clubs that do so inform the owner of the incorrect aspect of the car, thus allowing the owner to take corrective measures. in aaca judging, an owner isn't afforded the oerrtunity to improve the car. i've taken some of our cars to aaca meets, and after each judging event, i've swore to myself to not return.but i do. when one compares the time spent by the aaca judging teams( on our cars usually less than 3 minutes) to the time spent by VCCA judges(20 minutes) and NCRS(6-8 hours), it plain to see "ya get what ya pay for".mike

Yooooooooo Mike,

Boy did you hit the nail on the head!

Did you ever wonder how "so many vehicles" can be judged at an event such as the AACA Hershey event???

Because they aren't! They cherry pick the vehicles that visually appear to be nice - and walk past the others.
Hence, no sheets are returned- because in some cases they do not have any.

Then you have some silly judging rules such as....
"get down on your knees and whatever you can see under the car is to be judged..."

I have a personal friend with a Grand National '57 Tbird.
If you saw the driveshaft/floor tunnel on this car - you would not believe it was even judged. It would never fly with VCCA or NCRS (of course its not a Corvette)

I understand what the other members are saying about inconsistancy with judging. It happens at all events no matter who the venue is. Every single judge has his hot button.... so they look closely at some areas more than others. It gets worse if the show field has more than one vehicle in the same class. Wellll.... I recall one day a few years ago.. a show field with FIVE '55 Bel Air Sport Coupes and they were ALL Gypsy Red/Shoreline Beige. Not one car was the same color. Now.... the judging gets interesting in an event such as that.

If the vehicle is nice - it will always score within a 10-20 point range - no matter which VCCA judge looks at it. That seems to be the honest truth.....

I purchased a new Monte in the spring of 73. It came from the factory with General radials. They were not the Corporate tread design of the era.

Our '74 Nova was putchased Aeptember 12, 1974. I have the original invoice. Radials were $150.00 extra. There are $1449.oo of options on the car.