VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1937 Master DeLuxe

Hi, all. I recently joined the VCCA and this forum.

I own a 1937 Master DeLuxe Business Coupe that has been fully restored. I only have a few problems that I hope you all might help me with:

1. The cork float on my gas tank sending unit was old and I don't think it was floating anymore. The sending unit works (mostly, when empty I read 1/3 tank), but I need to replace the cork float. Any ideas on where I could find one? Could I use a cork float from a Model T (they are sold online for about $6)?

2. When I bought my beauty, the idiot who had it previously had an 8 volt battery hooked up with a positive ground. I have since replaced the 8 volt with a 6 volt 600 CCA tractor battery I bought at a local shop, and have it hooked up with a negative ground. Everything works OK, except the starter. After a full charge on the battery, the starter cranks really slow. Once running, and I take her out for a Sunday drive, the battery seems just about dead. Once the engine stops, I don't have enough juice left in the battery to crank it anymore. My generator works fine; it throws out about 27 amps when running. The only thing I can think is that the battery is not big enough (not enough CCA). What kind of battery do I need? Does this sound like a battery problem to you?

Sorry about the long post, but I get excited when I talk about my car. Thanks for any help and I look forward to being an active member in this club.

http://www.fillingstation.com/

Go hear and search for cork float

What size are the battery cables? You can't use 12 volt cables not heavy enough you need like a 00 or 000 size cable they are about the size of you thumb

Maxine, Welcome Aboard!
I would start at where I believe is a good starting place.
By chance has the engine been recently freshly overhauled? Sometimes they will be set up with the new rings and the crankshaft and rod bearings a bit tight, and that makes them hard to turn over after they get warmed up. I would lean toward bad cables, a weak battery or a shot starter if it drags after warm up if the engine has several thousand miles on an overhaul. Also don't neglect to check the timing. Advanced timing will cause the engine to kick back against the starter sometimes, but retarded timing will loose power and run hot.
Check out the battery cables from the battery to the starter. Remove the clamping terminal ends and really get into the heart of the things, over time they develop corrosion on the ends where moisture can accumulate also those aftermarket el cheapo replacement terminal ends are not good, they will corrode under where the bare cable end is clamped with the two small hex screws or bolts. While you have them off check their size, not length but gage. They should be about twice as thick as those on a 12 volt vehicle. Since you know about tractor shops just a hint. I buy cables at Tractor Supply Company. the bigger gage the better. I like ought (0) gage (00) is better but I have found that (0) is ok if the other parts of the starting and charging system is above par. And after you are sure about the cables, the starter switch and the battery let us know what the situation is then.

If you have a three brush generator with a cut-out then your generator is putting out too many amps. You need to cut the third brush back on your generator output to about 12 to 15 amps. Also, if your generator is charging correctly your battery should not be dead when you are finished driving. Sounds like your battery might be defective...or possibly your generator. How many volts are you getting to your battery when the car is running?

At 600 CCA's your 6 volt battery should have enough power. As Tims37 mentioned, check your positive battery cable to make sure it is not a 12 volt cable. And, it wouldn't hurt if you had your starter rebuilt because part of the problem might be with your starter as well.



At 600 CCA

First of all, thanks everyone for the fast response.

Regarding MrMack's question about recent overhauling, I don't have an answer about when it was last overhauled. I bought the car back in July already restored. I think the restoration was done in the late 90's (97 is my best guess). It has not been used much since then. I can tell because of the excellent condition.

Timing is not an issue. I got a timing light for Christmas this year, and the first thing I did was check the timing on my car. I still have the problem

I don't think the starter is the problem. Anymore. That's what I first thought, because I've had other problems that required multiple jumps from 12 volt batteries. Although I was careful, I thought I may have damaged the starter. I took it to a local shop that works on this kind of stuff, and the old man told me that he checked everything out and that he couldn't find a problem (I believe him since he is the one that rebuilt my generator).

The battery cables are clean and corrosion free. The wire thickness, however, I'm not sure about. I think that this might be the problem as I remember on multiple occasions the battery leads getting pretty hot after failed attempts to start her. I'm going to check the wire tomorrow when I go to check the size of the battery compartment to see if a bigger battery will fit. Recalling from memory, it seems to be 12 volt cable.

Answering Junkyard Dog, I don't know what type of generator I have, but I recently installed a new old stock MOPAR cut-out that is working properly. As far as adjusting the brush, is that something I can find in the shop manual or is it pretty simple once I look at it. (I don't keep my car at my house, I have to travel into town where she is stored) I think the battery is OK, it's just that I use so much of the stored battery power trying to start her the first time, that I don't run her long enough for the generator to replenish enough power to get her cranking the second time. When the generator is running, I get about 7.5 volts.

Thanks for everyone's help. I believe my problem is the battery leads. I've checked everything else. I even took my battery to a battery shop and had it checked out. There is just not much that can go wrong with these simple cars. I'll post my results on the cable tomorrow.

As far as the cork goes, I didn't find anything at fillingstation.com. I'd really like to stay away from actual cork floats. I'd like to find a synthetic float or, worst case scenario, build my own brass float. I think that the alcohol in modern gas is the culprit for destroying the cork.

After you check for the heavier cables, make sure your battery is the heavy duty type of 6 volt which I understand have about double the plates. A "small" tractor battery might not work in a car with the lights etc dragging on it.
It would be nice to see some pics of your car.

The Filling Station part number for the cork float is FS-336A or part number SA-99 which is a brass float that can be adapted to work on your sending unit bending the wire into a semi-circle (some sending units need a little more wire added to have enough).

Your shop manual will show you how to adjust the third brush on your generator.

Dean50, I do have the heavy duty battery, I do remember that much.

Thanks, Chipper, for the part numbers. That is exactly what I was looking for. I guess I have some learning to do on how to search that particular site.

Here are some pictures that I took the day I got her home from the auction. I'll get some more detailed pictures once I get a chance to wash and detail her.

[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bwon-2MykHN4Oibe4wOwsw?feat=directlink[/img]

[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kaCaUbHm7j0UqugRLsDtYQ?feat=directlink[/img]

[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4EU9G8GcjP1AF53ASE8pzg?feat=directlink[/img]

[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e58hO_wSik1SRBiYPX6_mw?feat=directlink[/img]

Are you aware of the charging system features of the 1937 Chevrolet car?
With the light switch knob in the off position the generator will charge at a lower rate. About 7 amps. Pull it out 1/2 click between off and parking lights and the charging rate will double to about 15 amps. When making the third brush adjustment the higher charging rate must be selected.
This feature was to insure better charging of the battery for short trip driving or in the winter. With any of the other head light positions it automatically goes into the higher charging rate.

Ok before we go any further, one more question. When you are running the starter trying to start the engine about how many seconds do you have the starter on? and do you try for no more than 10 seconds each time? When I first start my car it takes deveral trys at 10 seconds with the choke all the way out and the accelerator peddle being jiggled 4 or 5 times then holding at half throttle. usually after the first time in three weeks between driving it will start during the first 5 or 7 seconds, often after a couple od seconds.

Chev Nut, I am aware of the charging features. I think that the resistor in the lighting system is burnt out. (I just found this out not too long ago and haven't had a chance to investigate). The only way that I can get the EM field in the generator energized, is to pull the light switch out to the first click.

MrMack, when I was having trouble starting it previously, there were several contributing factors to why it wouldn't start right away (severely carbonized spark plugs, I reset the point gap, corrected the timing, and rebuilt the carburetor). Now, starting it the first time is not a problem. She will start and run great. The only issue I have is that the starter spins slowly. I know they don't spin as fast as late model cars, but it should spin faster.

Hi Maxine, and WELCOME!! I just went through most of whats been talked about on this thread, a couple of years back. So I wont, re-hash to much of it. If you have a farm supply store near you, get yourself a bigger 6 volt battery. Mines over 700 cca. And as was stated before, go to either a 00 or 000 cables. They should all ready have them made up and in the store. So be sure all the dirt, rust, and paint, is cleaned off the cable contact points. I also ran an extra ground cable, from the starter mount bolt, to the frame. All this helped me out alot. Good luck,
____________________________
Joe's 37

Ok on the charging system, that can be taken care of to evaluate the battery and cables switches by using a battery charger to be sure the battery has a full charge. Again I went to Tractor Supply to get a charger with a 6 volt charging position, and it will charge up a 700cca battery overnight in the automatic position. No the starter won't ever turn near as fast as the 12 volt starters do.

Nice car! On my 37, it will start hard when it is hot if the timing is too slow. I time it with the ball on the flywheel lined up with the pointer and the use the octane selector on the distributor to advance it until it runs good and starts good. I have had it not start when hot and just advanced the timing and it started right up.

It looks like you got a mighty nice car there. I can add nothing to the advice you have already received about your slow starter. Except maybe if the battery, cables and starter are in good shape it, then, usually comes down to insufficient ground. Make sure you have a good one. Scrub the area where the ground cable hooks to the engine, transmission, or whatever.

Back to the car. It really looks clean as a whistle. Nice color, too. Thanks for the photos. Keep it in nice shape. That way, when you have become more familiar with other chevy years, you will have a decent equity to move on up to the most elegant, beautiful, desirable, and, surely as the sun comes tomorrow, your dream car: a 41.

Until then, best wishes, Charlie

Thanks for all the complements on my car.

I checked the battery leads today, and the positive cable is a little less than 1/2" in diameter. If it was solid, that corresponds to 00, but since it is stranded, I'm guessing either 0 or 00. This weekend I'll have to check the ground. It is the braided type, so I'll have to check what gage it corresponds with. I also have not checked the ground connection to the chassis. I also checked the battery compartment size, and I think I might be able to fit a 750 CCA battery in there, so I might have to try that and see what happens.

Thanks again for all your help.

They really got the deep, dark, rich 1937 maroon perfect.
Agree, its a beautiful car.

Maxine,

Great looking car. I too have a '37 and at first I had starting issues. Right sized cables and a clean contact made a huge difference. There is also a bit of learning how to start the car. I drive my car just about every week now and it starts in just a couple of seconds. Once in a while, it will fire enough to disengage the starter but not start the engine. I just let everything come to rest then crank again and it will start right up.

I do have a question for you. From the first picture, it looks like your headlights are not stock. What can you tell me about them?

Thanks,

Rich

Great looking car Maxine. The color looks great! The license plate number is neat. Too bad it won't work in the new home. Well, enjoy the new car....

Rich, I can't tell you a whole lot, just because I'm not sure what you're looking for. I don't know what headlamps were stock. Aside from describing them physically, I don't know much else. If you tell me what you're looking for, I'd be glad to look into it. You've piqued my interest now. Aside from admiring them as part of the car, I've never payed much attention to them.

I am wondering if its a megapixle thing. The grille looks a little distorted also and thats common with a digital camera.

Maxine,

Well, in the photo, the lens looks flatter than the stock bug eye lens and the reflectors look very bright and shiny.

Are they sealed beam lights?

I do drive a lot at night and would like to improve my headlights. I have already replaced the stock bulbs with 6 volt halogen bulbs, but my reflectors also need resilvering. I am considering options and after seeing the photo of your car, I was suspecting that something had been done to those lights. From as near as I can tell, it is not an option to install sealed beam lights in the '37 - '38 headlight buckets.

Gene thinks that there is some photo distortion, but regarding the looks of the grill, I think that may be either rechromed or a new grill. It certainly looks very good in any case. My grill was pitted and not a good candidate for rechroming. I also had drawn a line in the sand with money to be spent on the car and elected to paint my grill with a metalic paint. Most of the people I hang with certainly have not noticed.

One other comment. In your first post you said that a previous owner had installed a battery essentially backwards, with the positive terminal connected to ground. That seems like an electrical disaster to me. Did anything work properly? Did the starter crank in the right direction? As far as I know, the direction a DC motor turns is determined by the polarity of the supplied power.

Thanks,

Rich