VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Squeaky brakes

Even with 500 miles on new brake linings the brakes still squeak. Assuming that the squeak is coming from the rear I am hoping that filing a bevel on the fore and aft ends of the lining might be a fix. Now in reassembly I am trying to make sure that the bands are also adjusted properly, just in case that might be the problem too. Per the service bulletin for 1929 models: the rear service brake bands should be adjusted to have .015 to .025 inch clearance between the drum and brake lining. Is this measurement taken at the midpoint of the band? Or does it mean equal clearance around the whole band? To get equal spacing all around the drum seems unrealistic, I would expect the band would take the shape of the drum when brakes are applied anyway, especially after a little wear on the lining. What’s wrong with the usual way of adjusting brakes just to the point that they start to drag slightly? Does anyone have some suggestions on this? And to any other solutions for squeaky brakes?

Bill, I really can't answer your problem but unless your drums are rough or scored I would question the material the new linings are made of. I can't believe that the clearance is that critical on your car unless they are too tight and are hot from not enough clearance. (Make sure they are not contaminated by oil)

If your new linings are of the woven material with brass, the brass impregnated in the material can make your brakes squeal.

The stamped steel drums are much thinner than the cast iron that most are familiar. They will vibrate much easier which results in a squeal. The noise is the brake shoes grabbing and releasing a little before grabbing again. Rough, irregular surface on either drums or linings will cause the noise. Most of us don't consider the noise to be a bad thing as we know that only the brakes with significant friction (which stop the best) will make noise. And that noise means the brakes are working!

Chipper, I thought that that squeel was built in on purpose, to me it says...."Look out here I come and I am trying as hard as I can to STOP! this thang"

Mack,
That says it much better than I could. The squeal says "I'm working." If there is no sound how do you know that the old Chevy is going to eventually stop?

Hopefully you have better (two-wheel) brakes than the old, red painted russebil (car owned by some students) I saw running down the last part of the main street in Oslo in May (17th) 1963. The traffic light turned from green to yellow and the distance seemed too short for that car to stop before the crossing. Halfway down there was a traffic sign (No stopping). One of the students grabbed an anchor from the floor near the back seat. It was chained with connection to the bumper and suddenly linked to the sign. The car still rolling and the chain strong enought to bend the sign, before you could hear a big Bang when the chain burst. The car stopped halfway into the crossing, luckily without hitting anyone or any vehichles. Two police men on top of the "hill" heard the noise. The car left in a blue cloud of exhaust, leaving behind an anchor and a bent sign.

When people started laughing even the police had to smile a little and found the situation somewhat amusing themselves. After all, it was our National Day! What a day not to be forgotten!

:vcca:

Solan, That story demonstrates that the younger generations always seem to come up with some kind of a car, and they develop all kinds of solutions to problems associated with young folks and their cars. A good story indeed!....Some times things work out without a fatality, unfortunately that is not always the case. These young drivers often turn into award winning test pilots, when they are flung into a war at a too early age. Did you ever hear of Chuck Yeager?

Well,if squeal is the test of good brakes I have the best brakes around as my 32 sounds like a loaded 10 wheeler in a panic stop. Gets plenty of stares for its looks, but if their not looking when I hit the brakes it sure turns heads!!

Bill, I believe the clearance should be all the way around as best as possible. When I reworked my brakes a couple of years ago it took some doing but I bent, re-arced, and tweaked the rear brake band. It can be done. The big thing is that they work and do not drag so much that they heat up. I have a service manual that I bought online that gives some hints. Bear in mind that these brakes are not like todays brakes in that the front ones today do about 70% of the work. The '28 and '29 brakes were designed so that the rear ones did 60%, and the front 40%. On another note I'll bet it is the front brakes that are squeeling so much. In the 60s some brake drums had a groove in the outer ring so that a spring band could be placed around it. Its purpose was to reduce squeeling. I got an old truck inner tube from Les Scwab that I was going to cut a band to slip over the front drums. I was going to make it fairly narrow so that it would not hold in too much heat. I do not think a person would notice it against a black brake drum. It may work. If it does and holds too much heat a person may be able to find a couple of those springs for the front drums.

Goods morning!
Wannt to add another question about an unexpected miracle after relining the brakes:
Did it as posted last summer with soft linings including complete overhauling of front brake cables and brake adjusting as written in the manual, after that the brakes were very good.
But:
If I start after break overnight for ex. and the brakes are completely cold it is not possible to brake normal at beginning. I just touch the brake pedal carefully and the brakes "bite" very brutal and the rear wheels block immediatly. There is no normal braking possible before a warm up of the brake drums. each braking ands with a blocked full stop. Dangerous for the drivers behind me too.
That happens only if I brake while forward driving. So, my neighbours laugh if they see me doing it, after starting the car first I have to run the engine fast by hand throttle on dashboard and drive back with full brake to warm up the drums. After that everything is normal and the brake works as it should.
Sorry, with all my experience working on my cars since I was 18 I am unable to find out what is going on there.

Maybe the new linings offered by a local dealer are too soft and offer too much grip?
Or the general humidity in the air lets the drums rust a bit over night and that gives to much grip? Have no more ideas, but I guess it should not be a normal proceed to warm up the drums before driving every day.
Any new ideas about?
Happy new year to everybody!

And special to Chip W. L. Boyd: Sorry my email system broke down and I lost all adresses and was unable to send a xmas greeting...

Stefangermany

Thanks, Stefan and a very (late) Merry Christmas to you with a Happy New Year!

....and I have no idea why your brakes are acting this way.

All the Best, Chip

PS -- I will send you an email with all my contact information.

The brakes on my 31 are so loud it gets the dogs barking. It is the front brakes that make all the noise. When I romove the front drums and blow out all the brake dust and replace, the noise goes away for awhile. I also have tried filing cross hatchs in the linings and that seems to help a little. Otherwise when not wanting to hear that squalling noise I use the rear brakes only.

hoppy

the brakes on my 30 make noise too. but it hit and miss.
if i come to a slow stop, brakes cold. no noise. if i hit the brakes on the hard side, brakes hot, i get noise. to me its a game. will my brakes make noise on the next stop? maybe yes, maybe no.

I have a crazy thing that happens on my 31 coupe. When I park it in the garage and go to use it the next time I start to back out and my right rear drum locks up. I have to pull forward and then try again. Some times it takes several of theses back and forth moves to get me out of the garage. Once I am out it seems to be fine except for the sqeeking. If the drums heat up the sqeek seems to die down some what. After the new year I am going to try and loosen that drum to see if that is the problem. I have guests now until Saturday so I have to be good. Happy New Year to all.

The Model T "F*&*%@" guys have solved that problem by offering aftermarket cast iron brake drums which I would think some "entremanure??" (business man) would venture into making some for us Chevrolet people.

hoppy

Thanks to everyone for responding. During my testing to find out if the squeaks are coming from the front or the back, I disconnected the brake rods to the rears to isolate brake action to just the fronts. Well, that didn’t work; I didn’t have any brakes at all. Good thing I was on flat ground and that the emergency brake still worked. According to the responses on this subject, it sounds more like the front brakes are the culprit. Does anyone have a suggestion for isolating the front brakes from the back brakes so I can determine which ones are causing the squeak? Another thing I think could be giving me the grief is, in restoration I glass bead blasted the drums which could have tempered the surface metal, or left a rough surface. Since not everyone’s brakes squeak, there has to be fix. Does anyone have an opinion on the blasting of the drums? Should I have the front drums turned to assure a smooth surface? The rears seem too thin for turning, but what about putting them on a lathe and sanding the surfaces smooth? The suggestion of putting a big rubber band around the front drums to dampen the noise sounds like a good easy idea for the process of elimination. All suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Sal-
I have a very similar problem with my 32 only it happens on the front brakes. If I don't apply the brakes slightly after backing its fine. Last Fall I thought I had found the problem as one of the front brake springs was hanging up on a bolt head. I eliminated the interference by reversing the spring and the lock up went away on that brake.Didn't go too far as the opposite side is now doing the same thing.Probably won't get to check that side until Spring, but I am curious if the two coils in the return spring should be of different lengths.I did get new springs but they were longer than the originals so I ended up using the original ones.Perhaps someone has spec's for the correct spring dimensions.

Thanks for the reply Steve. I am hoping to get into that next week after all my company leaves. It is just a mystery because it just does it some times. So when I drive forward it usually breaks it loose, but when it locks up it is really stuck as far as going backwards. I will keep in touch.

my 31 does the same . noise and lock up in reverse seems to be worse if it sits a while . it stopps well keep us posted so that i can fix mine.

Hi Sal,
seems we have the same problem. Sometimes the front brakes block when I want to back out of my garden. One day, after a rain I was unable to leave my home. Both front wheels did block and when I did try to go forward a bit to loose them it did end with front wheels in the gras and the rear wheels were on slippery ground too so I had no chance to get out.
Did jack up the front and put the wheels on wet soaped wooden planks, after that I could leave the garden and back on street I had motor-power and grip enough to begin the stupid "warm up" going backwards with hand throtteled full power while braking hard.
Am not happy about that stupid doing all the time before I can drive normal, but at the moment I dont have a better solution. After warming up the brake drums everything works normal as it should, on a test stand for brakes it offers very good and equal braking. But if they are cold, they block and it is a kind of desaster. Maybe in spring I do another try with harder linings, but actually I am not in the mood to do it again...

Stefangermany

Did you guys "centralize" your brakes? If not then one brake shoe will contact the drum before the companion which could lock up the brakes.

Yes I did "centralize" a couple of times and I have the adjustment tool.Almost seems that the lining is too agressive and causing the shoe to be "wedged" in between the drum and cam.Its interesting to note that most of us having this problem all refer to it as the brake "locking". In my case my driveway from my garage is sloped downhill and when the brake locks I can not roll backwards even under power. I only need to go forward a few inches and it releases.Perhaps a stronger return spring will help.With so many having the same problem perhaps the correction will help all of us.

When you centralized your brakes, did you retighten the lock nut? If not, your brakes will definetely lock up going backwards. It would be worth checking this out.

hoppy

Yes, I did and can't imagine all of us not doing so.It seems as if the shoe is jamming between the drum and the cam.Perhaps the drums have been turned(ground) too far or other reason that the shoes are riding too high on the cams, thus in reverse they are being wedged between the drum and the cam.Unfortunately its impossible to see inside the drum when this happens.