VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 1928 spoked rims

I am rebuilding my 1928 Chevy's rims and I'm haveing problems with getting the outer hub out of the Oak spokes.
I have removed the brake drum, but can't seem to remove the outer hub from the centre of the spokes.
Is there a special way to remove the hub, without damage to the spokes??
Do I need to make a brace to secure the spokes in place, and press the hub out???


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

I take the spoke,one by one,a little each time, around and around to the hub are out.

Mark each spoke and inside the outer rim 1 to 12 so you are sure the spoke come in right place where you put they back. Have you 4 wheel - mark 1 to 48.

Picture: -27 truck wheel

July 2009 G&D had an awesome article on spoked wheels. Understanding how they go together might help understanding how to take apart. Good luck Jay

The wheels my 26 truck had spokes with compound angles. 6 of the spokes (every other one) were be wider than the other 6 next to the hub when viewed from the threaded end of the hub. If yours are like this you will want to drive the ones the wide side down toward the threaded end of the hub first or you might be tightening the wheel.

Hi Jay,

Do you need to pull the spokes out? If not, the hub should press out fairly easily - it would originally have been a light push fit in the spokes, so is probably being held in by rust or dirt. I have a couple of 1/2" plywood circles with outside diameter about 19" (not in any way critical) and the inside cut out to about the diameter of the hub flange. These are put one each side of the wheel and bolted together with bolts through the gaps between the spokes. Something like this should give enough support to the spokes to allow the hub to be pressed out without disturbing the spokes.

If you do want to remove the spokes, there were two types used. Most of the ones I have come across have the compound angles on the hub end of the spoke as described by 3window, and are the easiest to remove as Bluezone describes. Make sure when you replace these, both that they are in the correct order, and that the brake drum side of the spokes is on the correct side of the wheel - the original spokes are offset slightly towards the outside of the wheel so the center of the wheel felloe is not directly over the center of spokes in the hub.

A couple of wheels I have come across have only the 30º angle on the hub end without the 10 degree compound angle. These are difficult to remove and replace without damage, and are probably best left undisturbed unless they are going to be replaced with new spokes, which will almost certainly be supplied with the compound angles.

By the way, if the wheel is still tight and the old spokes are in good condition other than some wear on the dowels, they can be relaimed. Clamp the spokes with the clamp rings I described above so they cannot move, and drill the old dowel out with a 5/8" drill, continuing to drill into the spoke end to a depth of about 1 1/2", then use epoxy adhesive to glue new 5/8" hardwood dowels in place. I was a bit suspicious of ths repair when I first heard of it, but a previous owner of one of my cars used it on a couple of the wheels in 1990, and the wheels are still perfect.

Frank

Hi franco
My spokes are in good shape but would like to remove them for a complete cleaning and refinishing.
A previous owner had painted the rims and spokes and made a mess out of them.
I talked to a old friend of mine about the rims, and to my surprize he pulled out an old spoke jack that was sitting in his shed for years, but was not sure on how to use it.
It has a Y shape pattern with some kind of hooks on each of the ends with a crank handle near the middle .
Do you know how these things work?


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

Hey Shawng
I have not heard of this G&D What does the G&D stand for (name wise) I would like to check out this article, Where can I find this??


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

Jay,

From your description I think that what your friend has is a rim spreader, used to expand the detachable rim inside the tire bead after changing a tire so thr rim will fit over the wheel felloe. These are very handy indeed if you have to change a tire - don't let him dispose of it!

There are photos and a description of these in this thread:

https://vccachat.org/forum/ubbthrea...e_Mount_tire_on_28_disc_wheel#Post125013


Frank.

Jay28 As a member of the VCCA you should/would receive a monthly magazine known as the G&D that stands for Generator & Distributor and it has a lot of Tech information and other club information. You should become a member it is a good investment in your car.

Hi franco
I checked the photo's you directed me to, and it is a rim spreader and not a spoke jack.
I phoned my friend today, about the tool, and what he was going to do with it, he said I can have it.
Was there ever a jack made for the spokes????


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

Hi Jay,

Not quite sure what you envisage using a "spoke jack" for?? I have not heard of any tool by that name. If it is to separate the spokes so they can be removed from the felloe after the hub has been removed, just do as 3windows suggested, i.e. tap down the alternate spokes whose narrow side is facing you using a piece of wood between the spoke and the hammer to avoid bruising the spoke. After the first one comes loose the others will be easy to move, and once one spoke is out the others will come out easily.

When re-assembling the wheel place the spokes in their correct positions and use a bolt through two pieces of timber, one each side of the wheel center, to pull the spoke ends firmly back into place, then re-fit the hub.

My apologies if I have not understood what your query meant.

Frank.

Hey franco
I heard a couple at a swap meet last year talking about a spoke jack, they must of been talking about a rim spreader, I thought I would inquire about it, because I have not heard of one myself.
Once I have cleaned the spokes, what would be the best finish to put on? I have been looking at some stuff called Diamond Coat, this is a clear coat exterior varnish that has a UV protectant in it, but would like a second opinion on this.

Once I have the spokes done and installed, is there a sealant that goes between the hubs and spokes to keep water from getting in between these parts??? Like a gasket or seam sealer
?
When I took the brake drum off the rim ,there was water traped in between, would like to stop this from happening again, any ideas???


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

There is a tool called "Spoke Jack". It is used to spread the rim for the purpose of placing shims under the outer end of the spoke.

Don't really understand why you are disassembling the wheel. You will probable have more problems if you had left it alone. For sure the wheel will be more loose after the reassembly. If you insist, remove as much moisture from the spokes as possible. Perhaps an oven that would hold the complete wheel. Same applies to the reassembly, as dry as possible.

Wish you luck in achieving your desired effect.

I agree with Ray. I would not be disassembling for any reason other than a major repair. If a refinish is the intention, I would do it on the complete assembly and be done with it. As for a clear finish, I would not buy hardware stuff, but would head down to the local marine shop (might be hard on the prairies, lol) and get the best marine varnish or urethane money can buy. This is not something you will want to redo any time soon.

Hey Antiquemechanic
I would like to sandblast the rim and hubs + strip old paint off the spokes , Doing a full resto (top to bottom) so this will need to be done.
I removed the spokes lastnight on one rim and they came out with very little damage,( took my time and did not rush) I do have an extra rim for a back up if needed.
These rims are all original and have not been refreshed since they came of the line.
If you like send me your email address and I'll send you some pics and see what you think.


Keeping vintage Chevy alive.

Hi,

I have a good idea of what they look like. I have a roadster and a touring with wood spokes so I know what you are facing. My email is in "my stuff".

I suggest you finish your spokes and put this wheel back together before you take anymore apart. You will want a flat plate to bolt your hub to down through the center, then center and block up the rim the correct amount and clamp down so when you put your spokes in the wheel will run straight & true. Orient the hub in relationship to the rim so the holes in the hub will align back up to the holes aready in your spokes. You dont want to have to drill new holes or you will weaken your wheel. If yours have the compound angle you will want to put in the first six wide side down(every other one) then start the next six wide side up tapping each one down a little at a time going round and round untill they are seated tight. When done put it back on the car and spin it, this will tell you how good of job you done. When setting this up for best results use calipers when measuring. The better your fixture the better your wheel will be.

Jay, I second shawng's suggestion to use marine spar varnish - it's designed for almost the same conditions as wooden spokes are subjected to. It is not cheap, but is probably worth the extra cost over normal exterior varnish.

I really don't know if any sealer was used on the spoke butts - it would seem to be logical, but I have never seen evidence of its use on any old spokes. I doubt there would be any sign left of a clear sealer after 80+ years though. I do not recall seeing any damage to spoke butts from a wet environment. They always seem to have been protected by a coating of old oil or grease. I have seen dowels with water damaged ends though - hence my comment in an earlier post about replacing the occasional damaged dowel in an otherwise sound wheel without disturbing the spokes.

I would also say I agree with 3windows suggestion to try one wheel first before dismantling the other three to see how it goes. Once the original spokes have been disturbed and reinstalled it is unlikely that the wheel will be as tight as when the spokes were originally press fitted. My own preference if the original spokes are in really good condition and the wheel is still tight is to re-finish the wheel with the spokes still in place. It is a pain to do it this way, but afterwards you can be fairly sure the wheel will still be tight and true.

Frank.

I have refinished a set of wheels leaving the wheels intact and I have done a complete set from scratch. I fact, I'm wondering if the article referred to in the G&D is my article which I originally published in our newsletter ("The Running Board" - Restoring Wooden Wheels) and sent in quite awhile ago.
It certainly is easier to refinish the hubs and rims when wheels are apart. However, in the situation described, where the wheels are solid and have previously been redone, chances are that all you need to do is clean off the paint and varnish with paint stripper, do some sanding and scraping, and refinish. I would really hesitate to take good solid wheels apart if you don't need to. You'll never get them together as good as they were originally. "If it ain't broke, dont't fix it."