VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Trucks and Vans 46 1/2 ton - completely bummed out

I could not be more bummed out right now. I spent some time yesterday working on the connecting rod bearing shims on the cylinder that went bad (216). I test drove it last night for about 20 miles and everything was great - just in time for the VCCA meet in MN next week!!! I took my daughter and headed out this morning to go to a car show/fly in in Watertown, WI this morning and about 15 miles into the 20 mile drive, I stopped for gas and very soon after we were back on our way but I noticed that darn knocking again!!! Louder and louder the further I went then the knocking was followed by smoke (oil). I only drove about 2 milesso I hope I did not completly ruin the crank, cylinder or piston.

never did make it to the show. i had the opportunity to try out my roadside assistance from Hargerty. I'm going to tear into it this afternoon but it looks like not only did I now make it to the Watertown show but my plans to attend my first VCCA meet have been ruined. I figure even if I can fix the truck as is, I probably wont have the necessary parts and won't be able to get them for a few days.

VCCA show in MN is not going to happen for me. the darn forward cyinder that i had problems with earlier this spring is the touble spot again. The connecting rod bearing is bad again. The crank also appears to be scored this time as well. I am completely frustrated with this thing!

Tim,
I am really sorry to hear of your problem. I was looking forward to YOUR first show.
Seeing it was smoking indiactes a piston problem also. The plug should be oil fouled on that cylinder.
Is the original engine rebuildable?
You could come up for the judging seminar on Tue. and actual judging on Wednesday.
If you don't make it I will pick-up your goody bag and other material.

I was thinking the same thing pertaining to the piston but strangely enough the plug looked absolutely fine and no different than the rest of them. My original engine is rebuildable but it is more about having he cash available to do it at this point. For now the truck will probably be going up on blocks until I get the motivation to jump into it.

Once I figured what it was and how bad it was, I canceled out of my hotel and trailer rental and left a message for louise Falk in Mn letting them know I could not make it. As much as I was looking forward to this week, I just can't justify going that far without the truck. It would kind of be like going to a wedding without the bride. While it may be a learning experience, it means a lot more with the "bride" there.

If you could pick up the goody bag and materials, it would be greatly appreciated. I certain I will see you at one of the local shows.

Tim

Look for a 54 235 and you can make it look real close to a 216 and will never have to deal with those babbit bearings again,216s can be converted to full pressure and I think Jim Carter sells converted shortblocks if you want to stay original.

There is nothing wrong with the dipper engines with babbit bearings (all cars have babbit bearings). I drove the wheels off them when they were new and still drive my old ones the same way. I can tell you what they will all do as far as maximum speed in both 2nd and 3rd gears. Have put many hundreds of thousans of miles on the old 216 and 235 engines wih no bearing problems.

I have already started asking around trying to find a machine shop and engine rebuild shop that can help me out. I do plan to stick with the original 216. Even though the tow truck driver continued to try to convince me to just put a small block in it, I have gone way too far at this point trying to keep it original to change at this point. Anybody have any idea how much I can expect to pay to have the lower half of a 216 rebuilt?

To Gene's point, I have my original 216 block sitting in the garage. I guess it's time to go back to the original block.

I have a lot of questions at this point. Will I be able to use my rebuilt 216 head from the 1948 engine that is currently in my truck? What about the Cam, pistons, oil pump, etc....? Are they interchangeable? I know that the cranks changed so I will probably just have my original crank and rods serviced.

I was really hoping to get to the VCCA meet in MN next week to get the truck judged as a baseline. I have been invited to show the truck in the Milwaukee Masterpiece Speed & Style Concours event in August so instead of using the information learned from the VCCA meet/judging results, I guess getting it running again is my new goal. www.milwaukeemasterpiece.com

I had planned on using the information I picked up from getting it judged to fix/correct any items that needed attention before the August show in Milwaukee.

Oh well, I guess everything happens for a reason.

The following parts from the 1948 engine will not fit the 1946-47.
Crankshaft,connecting rods, main bearings,
The heads will interchange but the 1946 engine will have (or should have) the small 10MM spark plugs. The valves are different between the two years. The 1948 engine has a better original feature that prevents oil from running down the valve stems. It was the last year to use the 10MM plugs.
I have a new crankshaft out in the garage. May possibly be a 1942-1947 216. Will check it out when I get back.

You could probably score a 235 from your local Craigslist for 2-300 bucks, drop it in your truck and be mobile. Rodders many times will simply give them away or junk them, as they are of no use to them. This approach would allow you to space out the monetary requirements necessary to properly rebuild the original engine. Personally, I would hunt down a 261 and put it in there with a 216 valve cover and stud kit. But I blaspheme.
I have known several guys who desperately wanted to stay original, yet when the rubber hit the road, they put in a more capable version of the original engines and were happy they had changed their position. I have a 302 GMC where a 228 should be in my '45 GMC, however I work my truck, drive over 10K a year in it. Haul debris to the dump etc. I will be driving 800 miles round trip this weekend to Macungie, PA from NH and will pass most everything on the way. (Truckstell, 3.55's and 302 c.i.)
My point is, if you want to SHOW your truck, then by all means, keep the 216. but if you want that Chevrolet to be seen by thousands more by actually USING it, then please contemplate a more robust version of the 216. If you're good enough you can certainly make it so that you, and about 5 other guys on this board would be the only ones who could tell it wasn't the original 216. Apologies in advance to those who trailer. :)

A 235? You obvously haven't seen Tim's truck or the album that he has shared with us all the last couple of years. His truck is certainly Best of Show quaility.
And Tim, I've been following your progress via your album, since you first posted it. Also following this thread a bit and I just can't understand why, with all the effort that you have put into your project that you just don't find an auto machine shop and have a professional engine rebuilder go through it completely. A reliable shop should have the original engine back to you in a week or two as good as new. I thought for sure that you would have started out with a fresh rebuild on the entire drive line with a truck that has such an absoluely beautiful body.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Sure I have. And I agree about the fresh driveline from the get-go. But if you want to drive it, use what's at hand short term to get to your long term goal. When you come to Construction on the highway, don't just get out of the truck...take the detour!

Denny,

Thanks for the great comments. This has been a learning experience all the way for me and I have enjoyed every bit of it (well almost-waiting for the flatbed wrecker was not all that fun last Sunday). As for not having gone through the engine in the beginning? - a learning. There is not much that I spared when I did the truck but unfortunately this was one of them. I made the call when I was able to get my hands on a '48 216 that had already been rebuilt. The previous owner bought his '48 already restored to original condition and he decided to turn it into a daily driver. The rebuild had a few thousand miles on it when he removed it.

It ran great for the first couple hundred miles. In hind sight, I should have just spent the money and done the original one right away but at the time it seemed like a good thing to do to save a few hundred (probably a thousand) dollars.

As for the status now, I tore down the original 216 on Tuesday and dropped it off at a reputable engine machine shop yesterday. Assuming everything checks out, I should have it back in a couple weeks.

Once it is all done, I will be back to having the original numbers matching block in the truck. My new target date is having it all back together and going before August 21, 2009 which is the date of the Milwaukee Masterpeice which I hope to be participating in.

K10,

I can see some of your points with the driving the truck and doing what you can on the budget that you have. This is the thinking I used the first round. In many cases it can work just fine.

I am still running the original gears in my truck so my top speed is only about 45MPH (50 with a tail wind and slight hill). I love driving it around town and out of county highways. I love the fact I can drive on county hoghways and when people pass me they wave or give me a thumbs up vs. use of the other finger you may expect when driving 45 in a 55 zone.

I really only want to have it to where I can within reason drive it to shows that are close to my house. I would love to take the trip to Iola, WI one of these years (about 170 miles) but that may just be pushing it too far. At some point I will probably change out the rear end gears for higher speeds.

My uncle tells of a story where just after he bought the truck from my dad (Dad wanted a newer "more reliable" AD model) he drove it ove 180 miles round trip from Janesville, WI to Waupun, WI to pick something up because my dad was not confident his new truck would make it.

At a minimum I just want to get it to where I can actually drive it to Janesville (location of the GM assembly plant where it was built). If the GM plant gets the contract for the smaller cars, i will without a doubt get back down there and get some photos of it in front of the old GM buildings that are still standing (they are all fenced in now).

I did trailer it there last year for the Beloit Autorama last fall and had a blast driving it from Janesville to Beloit and back for the show.

Since you want to keep it original try to find a 46 big truck 235 and go through it,I dont think you can tell them apart from a 216 and its still a splash oiler.

Thanks but I already dropped off my original 1946 216 block off at the machine shop and have pretty much disassembled the engine in the truck just short of pulling it out of the truck.

This is the correct engine and is also the engine with the serial number that the truck has been registered under since it was new.

Seems I will soon have a good '48 216 block and some other misc parts that I won't be needing.

I'm sure many of you have been where I am at some point with a project. Just a little on the frustrated side of things but things are coming back together.

Tim

I applaud your efforts in keeping the 216 in the truck. I did a bunch of miles over the weekend with my '50 dr and couldn't be happier with the 216. We traveled 500 miles over the weekend, mostly 2 lane roads, but some freeway time was required. The car performed great, 50-55 mph not a problem. 20 miles to the gallon. Sitting in a big traffic pile up a couple times the temp gauge would creep towards 200, but that was it.
Good Luck
Don

Tim,
I've followed your build for quite a while now and am sorry to hear of your problem. Did you ever investigate any further into what caused the demise of the 1st 216? Just curious as to what the problem was. Did the engine still have poured babbit rods or had it been converted to inserts?

Best of luck to ya and it sounds like you'll be back on the road in no time.

Bob

Bob,

I am not exactly sure what caused it. Earlier in the year I replaced a rod that had started to go bad and made sure the oil passages were all clear and properly aimed. I put on about 70 or so miles after that repair before it went bad again so I really don't know.

I have not pulled the oil pump on the '48 engine to see if by chance it was not properly pumping as it should . To that point, I don't know if they just completely fail or get weaker over time. They look pretty simple so i am thinking that they just fail. I did notice as I was disassembling things that the oil filter I had (innerliner) barely had any oil in it which did not seem quite right.

Now that I have had the experience of completely tearing down one of these other than the odd situation with the oil pump, I diidn't see anything that really stood out as a logical problem just by looking at it. Clearly though it was not getting oil to that rod during the last few miles it ran. The knocking started after we stoped for gas and got worse over a couple miles when I stopped. That morning and the day before I probably put over 30 miles on it.

The engine, while rebuilt still had poured rods. I have actually found a set of six rods with the correct casting numbers and repoured babbit and plan to use them. I got a REALLY good deal on them. I also found a set of NORS rods for the '48 216 as well that I got a similar deal on. Just waiting for them to arrive.

As long as the guage showed pressure the pump was working. I have never seen one of those oil pumps fail....but the relief vavle could stick due to sludge causing low or no pressure.
The Inner Liner filter was quite simple. The tin cover would be removed and the filter bolted on in its place. I assume the distributor valve was in place (in the block behind the filer mount).
Are you coming to the car show on Sunday? I have your goody bag etc.

I'll be there on Sunday! Not sure what time I will arrive but I am planning on getting there. May head up to Butler first to staop at U-spray to sand blast a new air cleaner I just picked up but look forward to seeing everybody's cars.

U-Spray? Is this a place where you can go in and use their sandblast equipment or spraying booth Tim???
If that’s the case I sure wish we had one down here in Illinois. Trying to blast anything out in the back yard on a 95° day with the hood on is one miserable experience and I’m only good for about 5min. before the heat gets the best of me. At my last few jobs we had several large sandblast booths and I've spent many an hour in the gloves. Wish I could afford one here and now. I've got the pressures pots and a toy HF bench top cabinet but they are all VERY much for the amateur and have been nothing but trouble, headache and mess.
As fur as the spray painting goes, wife has finally put the kybosh on anymore of that outside the garage since the whole corner of the concrete apron in the front of the house is now DP90 black. Besides that I’ve got the “neighbors from hell,“ on each side of me that sue every and anybody at the drop of a hat or least speck of paint in the air.
U-Spray sounds like something that should be a national franchise, bet it would go over big.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

www.u-spray.com

USpray web page

You got it Denny. You pay by the minute and they have three very large cabinets with different media in them. They do the real large items (anything that does not fit in the cabinets) but the rest of it is "do your own". Often when i have visited there I have had to wait for a cabinet to be available. I think they do a fairly decent business.

Thanks Tim, I threw out a line to the boys over at the 'Bolt and one guy came back and says it's about $75 an hour. Ya better have it all ready to blast when ya get there if they are charging by the minute. I'd make sure all the paint were stripped and just use the blaster to get after the rust.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Yes it is a bit on the pricey side but you only pay for time you are actually blasting and their cabinets, air pressure and media are all really good. The door needs to be closed for the timer to be running so the "art" of flipping the door open quickly keeps the cost down. You absolutely need to have all your parts ready to go and you also need to know how to use the blasters or the cost really goes up. I generally have used it for smaller parts. To your point, if you stripped them first you could really crank out a LOT of parts in a short period of time.

Sheriden, I am curious as to the oil you used in your '48 216. Did you use a detergent oil or a non-detergent? Use of a detergent oil in a motor that has been run on non-D for it's lifetime could be a real cause for concern.
I am not advocating the use of non D oils in rebuilt engines---But I definitely think that many a motor has been smoked due to simple oil changes with a modern motor oil.

The engine had actually been rebuilt and was run with modern 10-w30.

As for the status now, I am going back to the original block with the proper 1946 casting numbers, etc.... It is at the machine shop. I am pulling the 1948 216 this weekend (probably tomorrow) and we will be basically using what is good from that one in the original '46 block where we can. The original block pretty much needs everything. The crank was worn and needs to be turned and the pistons are collapsed and the cam is worn. i think I can use the '48 cam but I don;t think the crank is interchangeable unless I use '48 rods along with it which I may do if it works and saves me from having to pay for rods that will fit the original crank after it has been turned.


Time is ticking and I am still hopeful it will be back on the road by August.