VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Really Bad Day!

Enjoying a really nice ride in my 24 yesterday, then at the instant I realized my oil pressure was gone..............

Don't hold us in suspense. Was it just real low, none, low oil in the crankcase, broken oil pump???????

Hope no damage was done.

The pump evidently quit working and now I will have to figure out exactly how much damage was done. I can certainly tell you there was a LOT of banging going on. My buddy next door says we may be able to fix it, after we get the pan off and have a look around I'll know more.

Your oil pump arrangement is the same as the 1925. I would like to know what happened so I can relate it to the 25s.

Okay, so far all I know is that the pump must have quit. My buddy said he could see where it wasn't turning. I'll keep you posted on that. I hope we can figure something out to replace whatever bearings went out, he said it sounded like a rod bearing. Are these the babbit type??

batolson: That happened to me a few years ago. The housing that holds the distributor probably broke if it's original. I caught it on start up so no damage was done. If that's the case; be ready to dig deep into your pockets for the rear generator housing. They are expensive. Gary Wallace has nice aluminum reproductions. Good Luck. Hope no major damage was done.

Hi, the bearings are Babbitt. If you didn't drive a great distance after loosing the oil pump I wouldn't thing you have lost any engine bearings.

As to the oil pump. Turn the engine by crank and have someone look through the small space between the generator and oil pump. You should see the generator shaft turn and the oil pump should also turn. The two are connected by a female fitting on the end of the generator and a male fitting on the oil pump. If the oil pump is turning let's go to step two.

You may have an oil line break. With the use of the copper tubing this is very common.

You may have a loose connection in one of the fittings on one of the oil lines. They must be tight to prevent a suction leak.

You may have broken the rear of the generator, which is made of pot metal, if original, as suggested by a prior post.

If the housing is broken, parts are available for you to do the work or you may decide to send it out to an expert who is familiar with the entire generator, oil pump, distributor, and cutout.

If you have additional questions you may send me a PM.

It appears the end of the shaft is damaged. The slots in the back of the generator where the shaft goes appears to be in pretty good shape, maybe a little wallowed out, not much if any. The plan is to get a new shaft and then see if there is damage to the engine after getting the oil pressure back. There wasn't anything in the oil that indicated anything bad. I have my fingers crossed.

Anybody know where I might get the shaft with the gear on it?? I don't see it listed at Fillin Station or Gary Wallace??

I have never seen that oil pump before. You will have to get a shaft machined. The gear comes off the end and will be placed on the new shaft. Having a new shaft made will be more economical that purchasing a new pump, however I have one.

Check closely when the new pump is mounted that it engages solidly with the end drive of the generator.

The oil pump says "Teel" on it, I don't know if that is the manufacturer or not. 752 is stamped where it mates up with the generator.

Got the shaft on the Oil Pump machined and put it on the car today. Unfortunately there is a really bad knock. I guess we will attempt to figure out whether it is a crank or a cam bearing. Bummer. Is there a really good manual I can get to help us?

Your knock is not the cam bearings as you don't have any.

The most likely suspect is a rod. You can figure out which one by shorting out each plug one at a time. If you can determine which one you will know where to go next.

If the above procedure did not help then it is time to get the very large screwdriver and place it behind your ear under your thumb and listen closely to each cylinder as it is running. If you can reinforce what you found above that would be great.

Let's assume none of the above gave you any indications. Then it is time to remove the pan. Feel each rod and see if you can move it side to side by hand. If no luck there you must remove the cap of each throw and carefully save the count of shims on both sides. Inspect the cap and the throw on the crank. If you can't find anything it will be necessary to use some plastigage to make a better measurment.

By this time you should have found something. It is not likely, but could be, to have a main bearing problem.

I just had the thought that your knock might be a loose rocker arm setting. Surely you can tell the difference in the sounds.

Thanks for the tips. The sound seemed to change when we shorted out #3. The plan is to take the pan off and see if we can determine what the cause is. Quite a severe sound, I hope we can fix it. My buddy is much more knowledgable then I am so we will see. I will keep you posted.

I am confused. The first 3 pictures are of number 3 which was damaged. The last picture is of number 2 which was not. There appears to be a nice collar/ridge on the last picture which is what was destroyed on number 3. Are these poured babbits or some sort of insert? There was no apparent damage to the crank or main bearings. What should I do now??

You have been hit with the bad RED X.

Something went wrong.

Bummer, exceeded my site limit on geocities. Will be available later..

As a member you can upload three photos to the members area.

https://vccachat.org/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/48/1/My_Project

The picture of the failed rod end seems to show a large void undernieth the collar /shoulder area where it has broken away.

I would say it has been poured too cold somehow and left the air pocket, unfortunatley the bearing metal has not adhered to the tinning, or maybe the tinning prior to pouring wasn't done correctly and it had no fusion to the rod cap.

Obviously my geocities site doesn't work too well. All but the last picture below are of #3 which was damaged when the oil pump failed. The other three rods seem to be tight and in good shape. The crank also seems to be in good shape. I originally thought these were some sort of inserts, but I guess they are poured. I was hoping that I could just get #3 rebabbitted somehow, but have been advised they all need to be redone. I am confused as everything was fine until the Oil Pump failed. I do not want to damage the crank, so I guess just doing #3 is not an option. Bummer. Any additional comments??

I'd get another opinion. If the rest of the rod bearing caps and main bearings are fine and within specs I would look into alternatives such as just doing the one rod or finding a NOS or good rod on Ebay. I know that the Alberta Pioneer Auto Club (APAC)in Calgary, Alberta, offers a babbiting service at a reasonable price and should be able to advise you. Their website is: clubs.hemmings.com/apac

Hi
I agree with Arend. In the autumn 2007 one of the connecting rod bearing scored. Another bearing had cracks (pieces missing) in the edges. Two bearings looked OK. All four bearings were poured although the 1922 models had inserts. I got the opportunity to buy two complete used rods with inserts that looked fine. So I have two rods with poured bearings and two with inserts. I was very careful with the shims to get the proper play. Since then I've been putting on 1 600 kilometers (2 500 miles). So far the engine works better and better, I guess it depends on the new bored cylinders is getting smother with the new pistons and piston rings.

Thanks to all who have helped me, both on this site and via E-mails. I believe the best thing would have been to basically rebuild the entire engine as recommended. However since #3 appears to be the only damage done and funds are limited, I am hoping to get by with Egge to babbitt the rod. I also took the head to a local shop that has worked on antiques to have it checked out. Not sure what they will recommend, I am hoping a valve job is not necessary.

Hopefully I will report back in a month or so that I am back on the road with my trips around the block and to local shows/events. I really enjoy that! Maybe if there is anyone left that still does the babbitt when I retire I can tear it down and do it right!!

Good Luck

Getting a good used rod and bearing shouldn't be a problem and will be a cheap way to fix your problem. I have quite a few but live in Australia, I could send you one if you can't find any
Chris