VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Oil Type Detergent/Non-Detergent

Is there a safe way to wean you car off of Non-Detergent oil?
Or should you just leave well enough alone and continue to use the old tech stuff.

you do not say what type of oil you are contemplating using,modern multigrade oils and synthetic oils are manufactured for a much closer tolerance of manufacture,if you remove all traces of your old monograde oil and any residues i would imagine big problems devoloping rather soon,if you have just overhauled your engine completely and machined it to modern tolerances you should be ok,i myself would never use a detergent oil in a petrol engine as these were originally designed for diesel engines,leave it as it is,flush it with flushing oil but refil it with straight 30

I was thinking of 10w30. The oils today have to be far superior than the old type. As far as sludge getting loosened up goes, it is hard to remove it even with cleaning fluid.
I restore old Farmall tractors and have switched to detergent oils in them, and have had no problems. I would never contemplate using synthetic oil in it. I would not even use it in my old corvette. Now my tractors are old but not quite as old as my 32 Chevy. Just would like to get some opinions and experiances.

I had an original 1930 Model A **** with 52,000 miles, I have a 1931 Chevrolet with about 40,000 miles since restoration. Both of these cars had always had non-detergent oil in them. When the **** had about 40,000 miles and the Chevrolet about 30,000 miles I switched them to 10w30 detergent oil.

The first change I used one quart 10w30 detergent and four quarts non-detergent. The next change at about 1000 miles I used two quarts 10w30 and three non-detergent. Each time I used one more quart of 10w30 and one less non-detergent until I had all 10w30 detertent.

I did the same with my 51 several years ago. I have had no problems with any of the cars. I read in one of my magazines not to make the switch all at one time but a gradual switch works fine.

I am no chemist. Just telling of my experience and no problems. One reason I switched is because I was working on another fellows engine in a 1929 Chevrolet. He used Penzoil 10w30. When I saw how clean his engine was inside I made the switch.

See you down the Back Roads.

When my '29 was newly rebuilt I used 10W30 and occasionally I would have zero oil pressure for brief periods after starting when hot. I friend of mine who is a diesel mechanic told me the oil would foam in my style of oil pump. Since then I run non-detergent oil. Been ten years now and the old zero oil pressure has not happened even a single time. Just completed a nearly four hundred mile tour yesterday.

Regards, Gary

Safe way to wean off of non-detergent oil....just drain and refill.Detergent oil does not "clean" and engine but just keeps new sludge from forming.Also contains all the additives to prevent wear, prevent foaming, reduce friction, etc.10-30 also flows better when engine is cold.I wouldn't even consider using a non-detergent oil and its use was recommended by Chevrolet since the 1940's.

Afraid I can not go along with you there Gene. I bought an old Buick and after the first oil change with 10W30 detergent oil it began to leak. The new oil cleaned out the sludge and caused all sorts of seepages.

Gary

Chev Gene,

Let me understand this clearly....

You say Chevrolet recommended NON-detergent oil in the 1940's.... and up until when???

I'm not questioning what you say. I simply want clarification on the 'period.' I'm very curious about this.

Thanks!!

Bill.

Disregard what I said...brain was working slow.
Chevrolet did recommend detergent oils.Check the owners manual from the '40's as they say to use PREMIMUM OR HEAVY DUTY OIL.....these were the better oils of the day and did contain detergents - although not as good as todays oils.Later the name for the oils was changed to the letter classification and MS and DG grades were recommended...later the ratings was changed to the present SH,SJ etc.

Years ago McMillian Ring Free oil was perhaps one of the leading oils as far as detergents were concerned.The common problem with the old oils was it allowed carbon to form in the oil return holes in the oil ring and pistons causing oil consumption...usually found in cold weather/short trip/low speed cars.This was considered a greater problem than sludge formation.Unless the oil was changed every 1000 miles the areas on top of the head and behind the side cover would build up thick layers of sludge in a few years or 35,000 miles.When doing a valve job or motor overhaul the sludge clean up could take as long as an hour or so.Usually the oil pump screen was restricted also.

That is why I would remove and clean the oil pan and screen on an unknown old car before I would drive it any amount.

Thanks Guys

I have removed the pan and cleaned the oil pump screen. It looked pretty good. Went with 10w30.I acn always count on you guys and your experience.

Hello

I drive the car withe the Penrite oil 15W/ 60 think it is the best oil for the engine.

Switzerland

#60 oil is a very heavy (thick) oil for the oiling system in an old Chevrolet.I would prefer something like 15W-40 is a heaiver oil is desired...10W-30 if its a rebuilt engine.

I know that in Europe its customary to use heavier oils,even in modern cars.

Chevrolet recommended that nothing heavier than #30 be used in their engines.

Gene,

Thanks so much for clarifying the situation on Non and detergent oil a few days ago. I highly regard your comments and do my best to always follow your suggestions.

However, your 'advice' about using non-detergent oil (when your brain was 'working slow' as you said) really flew in the face of what I had previously understood from other folks whose advice I also regard highly.

I very pleased to see (what you might call) your "correction." All is now back in "proper order."

Thank you VERY much!!!



Bill.

The problem with to high a viscosity oil is oiling the cylinder walls and wrist pins. The heavier oils do not produce the necessary mist to coat the cylinder walls and be scraped off and run into the wrist pin depression. Some of the mist will also lubricate the center of the piston/pin. Since it takes some time for the damage to be noticeable the damage is done while the owner is assuming all is well.

Nor does high viscosity oil flow as freely in the dippers and splashers under the lower pressures, however, the low vis oils run off the bearings that are worn a lot more than speced and you have one of those catch 22 situations, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. have the bearings pound or have dry gaulded cyilinder walls and wrist pins. I have never seen 40 or 50 weight do any miracles on a Chevrolet dip, sling and splash system, maybe they work ok on a Buda, Superior, or other stationery engines.

as i first stated modern multigrade oils have a totally different makeup then old monogrades,one of the biggest problems is the anti foaming agents,if you could see your crank at two thousand revs you will see with modern oils it wrapped around the crank like a snake,this inhibits most of the splash effect,cylinder walls are usually oiled by pressure lubrication not splash, as stated old machining tolerances were a lot more than modern cars,at uni we were taught surface tensions on oils but that has disappeared into a grey mist but i do remember it being a lot different,if your engine is rebuilt i cannot see a problem as most engine shops work with better and more accurate machinery but are your cylinder walls getting enough oil,most modern monograde oils are made to a good standard with most of the anti ash and burnt combustion additives in them just the same as multigrades,i keep 31 motor cars and twelve motorcycles and each one gets what its manufacturer recommended and i do not get problems with the oil,in this instance if your engine goes wrong because you used the wrong oil you will be pig sick especially if there is nothing wrong with it on straight 30

As to modern multi vis oils compared to modern single vis oils 30 wt and 10 w 30 have equal amounts of detergents the thing that I have advocated is High detergent versus non-detergent, some seem to be confusing single vis oils and non-detergent oil as the same thing, not so. What I would advocate AVOIDING are any single grade oils above 30 wt and especially any that are are non-detergent.

As to manufacturer recommendations, detergent and multigrade oils were not recommended because they did not exhist back in 1928 or 1939 at the usual service stations and auto dealers service centers.