VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Tie rod end adjustment

Are the tie rod ends (ball and socket) adjustable? Mine are real loose. Should i be removing the cotter pin and trying to screw in the end or should I just replace?

The repair manual is lacking in this area. they describe toe and discuss tightening the steering connecting rod that looks similar, but that is it.

You should inspect the ends to make sure the springs are in good condition. Also check the balls for roundness. If you find problems replacement ball ends are available as are internal parts.

Thanks Chipper. There is enough play in them to tell me the internals are worn. Since the housing itself is good, I think will change all the innards.

One more question, do the balls press out or unscrew?

Normally they are a press out and look to see that someone has not welded them in.

Yuck! While I have a grinder, a welder and a 12 ton press, this is more that I expected. Oh well, if it must be done...

I think the first step will be to remove and inspect. Now that I know there is a spring in there, perhaps some of the play I felt and saw was just a weak spring.

Mine just all fell out. Pull the cotterpin,unscrew the plug and it falls out. Mind you you may have worn cups on top of worn cups and the balls may be way out of round but it is a simple job unless of course someone has done something stupid.
The important thing is that when you get it all back together nicely greased that you screw it all up tight and then back off to put the cotter pin through.I backed off a full turn and I had the lightest steering ever. I also chewed out a set of front tyres in about 50 miles.

The one thing I found with this car is that the previous owners took good care of the car, but had no real skill to screw things up. In other words, they mostly did nothing. I can see minor fixes on the car, but nothing that required tools. I guess that is a good thing, because every re-repair I have done has been easy to clean up. As soon as my fever is gone (sick today), i will get under and pop off a tie rid and look. Since Gary Wallace Is away for the week, there is plenty of time to inspect closely and then order new parts.

the proceedure for installing tie rod end is screw plug tight, back slot to cotter pin hole and insert pin.

if the ball has excessive wear and has become egg shaped this adjustment can lead to excessive looseness and/or binding when the wheels are turned. the spring is suppose the maintain tension but it doesn't allow for much variation in ball diameter. if the ball is signifcantly worn and the tie rod is adjusted with the wheels in the straight ahead position, you'll be tightening across the narrow part of the "egg". turning the wheels will start a cam type action inside the tie rod end and bind. this is a worst case scenario.

the ball is press fit into the arm and the end peened. grind off the peened area, apply heat the the arm and use a hammer or press to remove the ball. this is provided someone hasn't done some welding. this ball will remain hot for a while, even on a concrete floor......I know this for a fact!!

freeze the new ball, heat the arm and the ball installs easily. there should be enough stud to peen for safety.

Excellent instructions.

Excellent indeed, thanks!!! You guys always come through with the most detailed info of any forum I have been on.

I just found this on the Vintage Auto pats web site.

1928-40, except 39-40, w/ knee action (Stud type is an improved version replacing the original shell type ends. They require removal of the original ball stud in the steering arms.) ES29 stud; replacement stud type. $79.50 pair

http://www.vapinc.com/chevy/Steering%20Parts/main.html

Is this correct, can I indeed replace the shell type with stud type? I can't find any other reference to this.

Car is 1928 AB National

You might be careful on this. I find many vendors that throw the 1928 into later groupings and it is not the same. Do your homework.

And that is why I asked. Even with my limited knowledge on the car, I can also see the trend of vendors just adding in whatever they like to sell a part. So unless someone here says they will fit, i will stick to what is there right now.

This is a big topic.I spent a week sorting out my tierods and drag links.At the same time I am working on my "38". Some parts cross over; most don't. I did say that the balls fell out. They did from the tierods but not from the steering arms.That was simply a matter of cutting off the balls, grinding the arms flat,drilling through undersize and then, with a little heat tapping out the remainding balljoint shaft metal.I was given a new set of balls but found that they had a thicker neck which meant that they fouled the housing and caused the cups to rotate and jam in the housing.I bought correct ones locally.Some of the later cups have a piece cut from the rim to allow for a thicker neck. I wish that I had photographed what I had done but I didn't.You obviously have the elements in place.Are the balls round, are the cups in reasonable order (not worn through)? The spacer, plug and spring should never wear.If the above is in order you should be able to grease it all up and screw the plug up tight and insert the cotter pin.If all else fails contact me.Ultimately I can remove the tie rod and photograph the bits.

Thanks Terry. I have not had a chance to disassemble to inspect because 1) I was sick this week, 2) the car was on the wrong side of the garage because my son needed to use the hoist and 3) it has been cold and wet.

Today is supposed to be nice, so I will move the car back to the hoist side of the garage and begin the inspection. Stay tuned for more adventures from Ottawa.

i got into the garage this afternoon and removed one side. the ball was perfectly round. and the reason why... it would appear that nothing has ever been adjusted! everything, including the steering linkage is looser than you can believe. i am going to re-grease and tighten up everything and do an alignment (toe) and see how she drives.

Now it could also be loose because the cups in the tie rod ends are a bit worn, but I can't tell because I don't have a reference to go by, but they do look rather fine.

if the balls aren't worn it's unlikely the seats are unless someone replaced excessively worn balls and didn't change the seats. I'd tighten the plugs as described and see how it works.

Perhaps it is not obvious, but in adjusting the tie rod end, the adjusting plug is tightened completely to a jam. Then it is backed off one or more turns to allow the springs to come into play. Then continuing the adjustment out use the next slot for the cotter key. The springs are strong enough to hold the alignment while driving, but will compress to account for a bump or other incident. You can feel the springs compensating for changes in the driving conditions.

When I got my 28 sedan it had been kept up very well a lot of mechanical work of excellent quality was visable. You could see exactly how far the previous owner had went. he apparently did the engine and driveline first. good used parts were used on the brakes. Rods, clevis and the brakes were done front and rear. The only problem was the cross shaft bushings were binding up. the seals on the axle shafts and wheelbearings had leaked gear grease onto the brake linings. new seals and new linings fixed that. The cross shafts were fixed when one of our European members that is what I consider a 28 guru sent me new brass bushings. The front brakes were loosened off and weren't working, probably on purpose, they only used the old Chevy for parades and a couple of local shows. All went well until I drove her over a blacktop road with a lot of humps potholes and curves on a tour. The car did a watussie left and right. I took the tierods apart they were in very good repair and well greased. Next I checked the toe in. WALLA! it was toed out an inch and 3/8". I adjusted the toe in to 5/8 of an inch and aired the tires up to 40 PSI and the old car drives like it is supposed to, the toe in made all the difference in the world. I was amazed at how smooth the front wheel bearings rotate, no vibes and when the wheel is jscked up and spun it rolls forever, it seems. The ballance was off just enough to allow the valve stem to barely bottom out. I now have a lot of respect for the Chevrolet engineers of 1928. They really did a first class job with the tools and machine tools of that period. There is no wonder that there are so many of us restoreing these old "Roaring Fours." I have owned a Model A and they may be more popular, but they were not superior to the Chevrolet in engineering. (IMHO)

toed OUT "1 3/8!!! I don't know how you kept it in your lane over 10 mph

Antiquemechanic,
Thanks for confirming what I saw. It is not very obvious. I now have to disassemble, clean and re-grease and will adjust accordingly and see how it holds together. Before i started, the ball would flop around between the two cups. I also found that the link connecting the steering box to the axle assembly was even looser. Things were not loose enough to fall apart, but loose enough to make driving a true test of fear and stamina.

Mr.Mack,
5/8" toe! The repair manual says 1/8" and I have seen other info that went to 1/4". To be honest,I think I will follow your lead and do 5/8". As well, i have aired the tires up to 35, but they still don't look right. $0 it is. I trust you guys more than the manual.

Again, thanks guys!!!

mr mack did you mean 1/8 instead of 5/8 / tow in

Hey, I barely did! It was a good thing that we were only going out about 20 miles for dinner. I noticed that the original front tires were scuffing up fast. After the toe in was adjusted the tires were good for several hundred miles.
I used a method that I had used when I was a boy. This method was inproved by Dandy Don abd I used his procedure, using two coffee cans a length of angle iron and some masking tape and a Sharpie marker and a tape measure on the smooth and level shop concrete floor. I also did it with the wheels jacked up a few inches, the jack was in the center of the axle and a jack stand on each side of the axle. I later checked it with the wheels on the ground and it then measured just an 1/8" less toe in, than when it was jacked up. I wanted it jacked up so I could check the wheel bearing free play, Jacked up also made it easy to adjust the tie rod.

I adjusted mine using a the center of the tread as a reference rather than the wheel as the book says. It seems to track best at "1/4. "1/4 at the tread would measure different at the wheel.