VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Busted Pinion Gear

I took the differential apart on my 1926 Chev Touring. All the gears look great except for the pinion gear at the end of the propeller shaft. It is missing most of one tooth. The ring gear is also missing a small chip on one tooth.
I checked around today but have not been able to locate a replacement. Does anyone have one to spare or know where I might get one?
What should I do if I cannot locate one at a reasonable price? Can I drive the car with the gear as it is? Should I weld on a new tooth?




I managed to get the axles out by welding a nut that fits the thread on the end of the axle to a nut that screws onto the end of a slide hammer. It took hardly any force at all. However I can't get the pinion separated from the bearing and the Repair Manual isn't very helpful. It only says "the bearing can then be removed from the propeller shaft". Any advice would be much appreciated.

I dont think welding is an option, These parts are made from hardened steel ,and doesnt weld well, and normally cracks again quickly.
Welding also causes distortion on cooling, so you wouldnt end up with the gears meshing correctly.

How would you shape the twisted shapes after welding??

Second hand or NOS would have to be the only option.

Don't get into a hurry. Check out eBay as R&P are listed often. Also did you check with Gary Wallace?

There is no need to think about welding up the teeth when a new R&P is available.

I do not know for certain if Snyder Antique F**D parts could supply this pinion/ring gear NORS. They deliver both pinion and ring gear to the 490, and they fit.

I would not recommend you to drive on with the broken parts.

:vcca:

Thanks to those who kindly offered advice. I have one further question: What would be a fair price to pay for a NOS R&P set. I see one listed on Ebay (#360119383538) with a starting price of $200 which seems high. In any case even though the claim is that they will fit a '26 Chev, it doesn't have the 42-11 ratio that I need.

You have to make your own decision about the $200.Basically the 42/11 went into the lighter touring cars and roadsters and the 46/11 into the heavier sedans.
My "28" tourer had a 42/11 diff in it and it broke so I had a 41/10 which was just no good; far too noisey. It so happened that a friend had a NOS 46/11 set so I put that in the car and it's been there for about ten years.
I live in the city and the 46/11 is a lot better for wandering around the place and is fine on the open road. I generally cruise at about 45 MPH and it wanders up hills a lot better. I always felt that with the 42/11 it was about to run out of breath particularly in top gear in suburban Sydney.
I'll leave you to think about it.

If you are not in a hurry, keep checking eBay.

You may also get a response from someone on the site.

There was a guy who advertised in the G&D about a year ago or so that I thought was also in the Alberta area. His name is Ray Ganser. Somebody here might remember him or else I can get the info for this evening.....Joe

Ray Ganser advertises in a Canadian newspaper I subscribe to called "old autos". I pass on my copies. Email or PM me in a couple weeks and if you don't find his information.

There is also a HUGE collector liquidating parts here in ALberta. Stan Reynolds sales 780-352-5201. He gave away the museum but still has parts and parts cars so google him. They are opening and selling trailerloads of parts one by one so really don't know what they have until they open the trailer.
If you call them with specific requests they might be able to help. They have so many parts it's just insane so they spread them out like a flea market in a big building. Nothing is labelled so it's overwhelming.

I took my yearly trip there this week. I can help with shipping to the US if you get stuck but he's 3 hours away so a crappy trip here in the winter. They might ship locally more willingly than across the border...

Tim

Thanks again for the help. Do you know where Ray Ganser lives? I Googled his name and found his number. Stan Reynolds in Westaskiwin, Alberta, is only an hour away for me and I've made many trips there and have found a lot of stuff at reasonable prices. For instance I've picked up NOS headgaskets for $20 each. The steel truck hub cap I used to make my rear wheel puller came from there($20). I have really enjoyed roaming through the fields of parts cars (during the summer)and browsing through the flea market. They keep putting out new stuff every so often as they open up storage sheds and trailers. They also have acres of tractors and machines. I have not seen any differentials or ring $ pinion sets but I haven't asked Bruce, the guy in charge, either yet.
Happy New Year to all.
Arend
1926 Chevrolet Superior Touring,
1930 Essex SuperSix Challenger Sedan

Ray Ganser lives in Provost Alberta. His phone number is 780-753-6797. He does not have an answering machine. You just have to keep trying to call or if you want to use mail;
Ray Ganser
PO Box 357
Provost Alberta
T0B 3S0

Joe

Sorry Arend,
I wasn't paying attention that you lived in Alberta let alone so close to Reynolds! You're lucky!

I was comparing what I have to the picture of the propeller shaft assembly in the Repair Manual and some things don't match. I seem to have some extra parts and the lock nut does not have a lock nut screw. When I took things apart the lock nut was loose, unscrewed all the way. I assume it should have been staked, since there is a thin ridge at the end of the nut and a slot in the shaft, but wasn't. I suspect that the extra parts are spacers but I don't see why they would be needed if the lock nut is turned in to get the parts together "snug" as they are supposed to be according to the manual. Could the reason the tooth was broken off in the first place be due to things being put together wrong? (I noticed I don't have the lock nut in the picture.)

Let's see if we can decipher this problem.

Some of the adjustment that is necessary to set the clearance between the pinion and ring gear is the spacers shown on the upper right of YOUR picture. These spacers are used as necessary to set the location of the pinion gear, and are placed behind the pinion bearing (shown in the book picture) and the recessed shoulder in the torque tube. The individual spacers are NOT shown in the book picture. This completes 1/2 of the work necessary to set the ring and pinion. The other 1/2 is finished when we button it up.

The initial cause of the failure of the rear end was the looseness of the propeller shaft lock nut.

The book picture shows the correct order of assembly. The propeller shaft lock nut is tightened as tight as you can get it. The lock nut lock screw is tightened so the nut can't work backwards by unscrewing. Most drive shaft pinions are locked with a washer with tangs that are deployed when the nut is tight.

The unit is now stood upright and the thin spacer washers [placed against the shoulder in the torque tube]. The shaft with "pumpkin" is now placed in the torque tube. Now the bearing lock sleeve screws are tightened BEHIND the pinion bearing.

The next step is the adjustment of the carrier bearings and I need not cover that procedure.

Thanks Antique Mechanic. However I'm still not quite clear on some things. The spacers and shims are the same outside diameter as the bearing lock sleeve and so would not support the pinion bearing which is quite a bit bigger and thus would drop right through the recessed shoulder in the torque tube that supports the pinion bearing. Are they perhaps meant to go in first before the assembly is slid into the tube so that the thrust bearing goes up against them? The picture on p. 85 shows a space behind the pinion bearing in the recessed shoulder with no spacer filling it. It does show a "propeller shaft bearing front washer" in front of the thrust bearing.

Also the Manual warns against tightening the propeller shaft lock nut really tight. It says, "Draw the propeller shaft lock nut up snug against the bearing. Be careful not to get it too tight - it must be free enough not to bind but should have no end play." I have no idea why.

As I indicated, the lock nut has no lock nut screw or a "washer with tangs" but seems to be made to be staked.

Hi,

That is correct.

There has got to be some means of locking the nut or it will work it's way off and the space will become larger and upset the relation to the correct setting of the pinion and ring gear clearance. Falure is sure to happen.

I called Ray Genser this morning, he lives about 3 hours away, and he is going to take a look when it warms up - it's been -40 out our way - and mail me pictures and descriptions of what he has. Since the process of obtaining new parts, probably a used differential, will take some time and this car won't be driveable anytime soon, I decided to put the differential back together for now and continue with other parts of the restoration. The washer and shims do fit in the bottom of the torque tube. I staked the lock nut so it won't come loose. Everything seems to fit. The book calls for a clearance between the ring gear and pinion of .006" but I couldn't figure out a way to measure that with a feeler gauge so I guessed. Again, thanks for the help.

Hi,

If you are going to purchase a new ring and pinion that is all the parts you will need (gaskets, lubes, etc).

If you are going to purchase something used then the solution is to exchange the entire unit. This will make the repair much easier. Using used parts and trying to set them up in a different torque tube will be a nightmare. So, think about purchasing the torque tube complete with the differential.

I just changed the ring and pinion in my 28. Luckly for me when the rear end went out 40 some years ago, my grandpa bought a ring and pinion set from a local auction for a $1 and we still had it!

-David

Arend
I can give you a good used pinion gear if you get stuck. Price would shipping only, but from Aus. Gear is free, glad to help if I can
Chris

I thought Christmas had come again this morning when a big heavy parcel was delivered by Canada Post. Inside was a used differential with a note from Ray Genser (Box 357, Provost, AB T0B 3S0, Canada, ph 780-753-6797) saying he decided it would be easier to just ship the parts rather than trying to describe their condition. Wow! and he's only asking $25 plus postage. Talk about great service!

The parts look pretty good and I've got them installed. It took a bit of scrubbing to get them clean but I had no difficulty installing the parts. Setting up the used unit was no different than installing the original. It took a bit of force to loosen the lock nut which I had staked securely. I followed the recommendation in the Manual and used valve grinding compound to seat the pinion on the propeller shaft. I reused my old side bearings because they looked a bit better. The adjustment is the same. You turn in the things on the side untill you get .OO6" of play between the teeth. Again I guessed since I couldn't get a feeler gauge between the teeth. However it turns smoothly and should work well. I found the hardest part is attaching the heavy completed torque tube unit to the axle housing. Thanks again to all those who offered advice and for me it's another problem solved and I now know how these differentials go together.

Oops, the guy's name is Ray Ganser, not Genser.

You can use a strip of white photocopy paper between the teeth to check for the correct mesh.

Wow! It's always great to find someone who's in it for the cars not the money. Refreshing to find someone so trusting too. I suppose that's the way it would have been when this car was new!