VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Wood wheels

Where's the best place to source wood spokes?

I have heard of guys having them made in Amish populated areas. I see you are in Indiana. There is an Amish community near Decatur. I'm sure you will get other leads as well.

I thought about the amish. I live in a highly amish populated area. I just figured there might be a place just to order them. another question is should they be painted in 28 or natural?

1928 spokes were natural.

Do you have the equipment to install the spokes? May be more than you wish to tackle.

If you would like to have them done perfectly, I can recommend a good wheelwright.

A good wheelwright sounds interesting.. Is he on the west coast? I'm not sure I would want to ship them all the way out there. I've seen pics of wheels both ways. This an AB light delivery. Does that change painted or not?

Yes, he is on the West Coast (West Lynn, OR just south of Portland) however he is the best at that trade.

The truck wheels would start out as natural, however in making the truck they could have painted to match body for example.

Give Jim a call and let him advise you on wood spoke wheels. 503 638-5275 or jayemkanne@comcast.net

I have a set of Oldsmobile wood spoke wheels that are dismantled and have a box of new replacement spokes here in west central IN if you are in the area you are welcome to come see how they go together. I think they are Jaxson wheels. And use metal fellows and second growth hickory like the chevys. I also have a 28 chevy truck with perfect untouched original wheels and yes, they were varnished originally. They would be difficult to do for a first timer, but it is not impossible, there are just a lot of angles and factors to consider to make them ride and drive right, but I can show you those and you can make a decision on whether you want to tackle it or get a pro$$$. I am a half hour south of Terre Haute and am here most of the time working on the 28 truck or someother ol time goody. 812-383-4234 or 317-354-9591

Thanks Ray I will give him a call. Mine are tight and not in bad shape. They show touches of what I think is paint, but it's hard to tell. The body I have is from YORK HOOVER. I would like to paint the wheels to match the body. That way I can use them without having to replace them. They really are in pretty good shape. Just not nice enough to leave natural.

Bob, Thanks for the invite! I'll probably take you up on it. Making them wouldn't be a problem. I'm a journeyman Tool and Die maker by trade. I'm presently doing pattern work for the past ten years. I just thought there might be a place to buy the spokes instead of making them. I work a full time job as well as run a body shop here at my home. Time was the only factor in asking about buying them. Kent

If you have those jobs, you might be able to help me out if you have time. I have a 23 Olds grain truck with badly wore out rear spring bolts, Should be easy to make, but I don't have the lathe or the right steel. Parts are all but impossible to find for those. Hate to drop the rear spring into the bed. I also have a few things that could use pattern work for recasting.

Kent,

You said "Making them wouldn't be a problem." Beware! They are not as simple as they look. They are of varying tapered more-or-less oval section, are offset slightly outwards from the vehicle body, and usually have a compound taper (30 degrees and 10 degrees), on the hub end. I presume the offset is for two reasons - to put the felloe closer to being over the center of the hub, and to provide extra clearance for the tire from the body. The tenon, of course, has to run parallel to the hub face.

On spokes with the compound taper there are two different spoke types in each wheel, one with the offset from the wide side of the hub taper, and the other with the offset from the narrow side of the hub taper.The wheel is assembled with the spoke types alternating, then the hubs are put in a press to lock the tapers in place.

It is much easier to buy them ready made than to make them if you need more than one or two. Spokes that are still tight in the hub but worn in the felloe can be reclaimed by bolting a plywood circle each side of the spokes so they cannot move, and drilling out the old tenon to a depth of about 2" with the spoke still in place. A new hardwood dowel can then be glued in with an epoxy adhesive. I have a set of wheels on a '27 which were repaired this way about 1992, and they are still tight and trouble free.

I am not much of a woodworker, let alone wheelwright, but tried to completely respoke a couple of wheels with hand made spokes, with very little success. I found it difficult to make the spokes uniform, and adjacent spokes which are not identical really stand out. Because I needed a possible total of 16 wheels done, (192 spokes), I ended up building a Blanchard type copy lathe to shape the spoke shanks as the cheapest way out, since my available time exceeds my available income! This produces absolutely uniform spokes from a pattern, and I suspect that a modern version of this is probably used by modern spoke manufacturers. For a number of reasons I don't make them for sale though.

Regards,

Frank.

I seem to have lost the edit function.

In my previous post the last sentence in the second paragraph:

"The wheel is assembled with the spoke types alternating, then the hubs are put in a press to lock the tapers in place."

should have read:

"The wheel is assembled with the spoke types alternating, then placed in a press to lock the tapers in place before fitting the hubs."

franco

Where would a person buy them "pre made"? Kent Moore

Kent,

I don't have any American contacts for wheel repairs, but I have seen a recent advertisement for a wheel rebuilder in California. I don't know whether he sells individual spokes though; I would guess not, but he might be prepared to sell them in sets of 12. We had a spoke supplier here a few years ago who was prepared to do this, and let you rebuild the wheel yourself, but I have not seen him advertising for some time. On the other hand the California shop might want to do the whole rebuild himself for potential liability reasons.

The address:

The Vintage Wheel Shop
(George Garrigan)
19842 Via Redondo
Sonora, CA 95370
Phone (209) 533-0468

I know no more than is in the advertisment, but it might be worth giving him a ring. Other forum members might be able to give you further suggestions for other rebuilders or sources for spokes.

I believe that in the twenties and thirties individual spokes used to be available here (Australia) from the spare parts departments of the major car sellers. I find this a bit surprising though, because my experience has been that it is rare to find two wheels with exactly the same spokes unless from the same car. There are small variations in cross sectional shape and/or size, even from the same car manufacturer and same year, so I don't know how well the new spokes would have matched the originals, though they should all have fitted the wheel OK.

Frank.

Thanks for the info... My wheels are nice and tight with no problems other than appearance wise.. If I were going to leave them natural I would replace.. But painted would work fine.. I'm thinking that I'll just paint them and save all the hassle and expense...

In Australia we had 3 option for wheels, 1st was painted wood, 2nd was varnished wood and 3rd was disc wheels
Chris

I was fooling around with these again today. I found on one wheel several areas on a couple of spokes where there was black paint. It looked like it was where the paint was put on thicker. Like a sag area or possibly a run. But all the wheels look to have a black tint to them as if they were painted. This truck being a commercial light delivery, it is possible that I'm not imagining that they should be painted black.

There is a possibility that the wheels may have been painted by a previous owner years ago or even by York Hoover. Someone may have also repainted the hubs or fellows years ago and slopped paint on the wood. The wheels on my truck were varnished but the varnish may be gone. Varnish can dry out and just flat flake off. Varnish is one of those finishes that must be refreshed once in a while or it goes bad and that dry Nebraska air may have cause it to happen years ago, but the wood is in excellent shape. Not sure on mine as I haven't even cleaned them at all and they still have 60 year old Nebraska road dirt/dried mud and dust all over them, but The wheels on Dads truck are varnished and the varnish has gotten very dark over the years and is acually getting alligatored on the surface like old furniture. In darker light they almost look painted. Also I have seen old wheels get grease soaked and look dark where the spoke goes into the hub and some end grain is exposed. The wheels on Dads 490 were black painted originally but he cleaned them and varnished. They sure were pretty!

On my '23, the spokes are the same as a "T". Those spokes are $5 each x 12 = 60$ per wheel. Last year, Jim's price was $165 per wheel and they were done right.

I have a friend that builds/restores cars profssionally. He used the "T" spokes for his car and he used his press and his bridgeport to install his spokes. I think he spent most of an entire week doing his own wheels. Next time he will have someone do his wheels for the additional $100 per wheel. Remember, they must be done correctly or the wheel will wobble side to side or even worse you might loose the concentricity of the wheel to the hub.

I took Antique Mechanic's recommendation and had Jim Kane rebuild my wheels. This is his profession. I was VERY pleased. He did a great job, and he does professional work. His turn around was good for my wheels since they are the same as the "T". He had a batch of 32 wheels to do at once.

Good Luck, and remember that good wheels are key to your safety. And ours are made of wood...

I sure appreciate everyones input on the wheels.. It's always great to hear from people that have " been there done that". I will call Jim if I decide to go with the natural spokes. However I am sure these were painted. So knowing all your thoughts I will know what has to be done if I go natural. Thanks again to all that replied,

Bob,
Tell me more about the spring bolts you need. Are you talking about the shackle or spring eye bolts? I have a batch of these that I can't I.D. If you have some dimensions, maybe I can help.

Mike

Here is a link to a place that you may want to check out. Good-Luck with the project!

http://www.calimerswheelshop.com/

Thanks,27 Chevy!! Great site!!

The wheels may look bad and you think the wood needs replaced because they have turned gray. I thought I would have to replace the wood, but we bleached ours with deck bleach and they returned to the natural color. We masked off the wood and painted the metal, then Varnished the wood. This was 18 years ago and they still look great on our 1927 Fire Truck. The Fire apparatus company had painted the wood red in 1927 and 98% of the paint was gone, but we went with the natural wood look upon restoration. If the spokes are not broke, then they probably do not need replaced.

I will have to go out and pull a bolt out to get a measurement on it, but will try to do it soon! One more thing I thought of guys since I have been cutting a lot of Hickory firewood lately. TIMBER WORMS! , Worms LOVE hickory! Check those spokes for post powder beetle holes! they are the little tiny holes you seen on old barn wood ect. Hickory will get timber bores inside in as little as a few months after a tree dies or is cut. I don't think they bother with wood that has been kiln dried, but those dang post powder beetles sure will and they can hollow out a peice of wood on the inside and look good on the out and make it as weak as a twig.