VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1971-1979 es12a freon

Has anybody had any experience with ES12a refrigerant. I have a 72 Caprice that needs ac work and I'm looking for an alternative to retrofit. The product is also cheap compared to R12 and much colder. Larger molecules mean less leakage.

If I could afford such a modern car I would convert it to R134. I have heard of good results with it, its readily available, and can be recycled with any AC charging station.

I really don't think that the stuff sold as e12a refrigerant is a Freon, It is a hydrocarbon, which spells butane or propane or a mix of butane or propane with some other trace aerosol, to me. The price is quite high if the stuff is really butane or propane.
I know that some shade-tree so-called air conditioning mechanics are charging old R-12 systems with butane. It does work. I ain't too crazy about using butane for that purpose.

When I had my shop we switched many cars over to the R134 the oldest was a 57 Buick. We had good results. I did buy a refrigerant identifier to use before we would work on a system, if it was not R12 or R134 we would not work on it because I did not want to contaminante my equipment. The EPA did not care if it worked or caused a problem only if it was bad for the ozone. So stick with R12 or R134 only.

I haved used with no problems, but it is rather expensive. I just charged my Monte Carlo SS with it and the compressor developed a leak about a month later. I then did the 134 retrofit just for the cost factor. The E12A has much much colder discharge temp. The larger diameter ducts seem to lower the volume of air. I did learn later to change the orifice tube (filter) to later style and that will improve the temp, next time
John

I still use the good old R-12 and that stuff works great. And, my cars love it too since that is the original equipment Freon.

:) :grin:

I agree, however it is very difficult to find R-12. If you find one of the cans it will demand $25-30 per can. If you are licensed to repair the AC you can purchase a 25 pound bottle. You must have all the correct equipment to evacuate a system and recharge it.

John, Is E12A avilable from a chain parts store like Auto Zone or NAPA?
And I take it from your post that you think it is better than R-12 or R134A?

Did you say to change the filter orifice, or the filter and the orifice?

I have been looking at a parts list for our 68 Impala with factory air and I saw a dryer (receiver) by the radiator with a sight glass, and what appears to be an orifice assembly up on the firewall on the passanger side.

I plan to replace the blower motor (It squeeks and only has high speed)do you think it is the bad blower motor that is causing only the single high speed, or will I need to replace the blower switch too? I don't know if I can find a switch.

I thought that would be a good time to restore the A/C. It still works with the original compressor and has R-12 and the sight glass filter or receiver.

What all should I replace besides the Blower motor, Duct hoses, compressor hoses, Compressor and clutch, orifice, sight glass receiver or dryer which ever it is?

We have a A/C wholesaler up at Graham, Texas that sells all that stuff on eBay and I can buy over the counter from him. I would rather just make one trip.

For the fan speed problem you need to replace the resistor

I have compared the R-134 to the R-12 and, personally, I like the R-12 a lot better. For one it is colder coming out of the registers.

Back when the R-12 crunch hit and it was going to be removed from the market, I applied for a license and then purchased a lifetime supply of R-12 my cars while it was still cheap. Since we have four vehicles that use R-12, I purchased cases and cases of the cans and a 30 pound container.

:) :grin:

Did you have to replace the POA valve on the 57 Buick ? Can't find them any more. Old Air has a POA update kit and I'm trying to find out if it replaces the original POA. The illustration on there web site looks like it may. I'm waiting for a reply from them. I think this converts the valve to an orifice type of unit. Thanks for your reply.

I get voltage at the blower motor in all of the fan speeds except off. The blower won't turn except in high, it really drags a lot and squeels in high for a couple of minutes then gets quieter but still is noisy.

I have had good results in just oiling the fan motor.
Remove motor, drill small hole in center of the back side of the motor. There is a raised peak in the center. Force light oil into the hole. Hold the shaft end straight up and oil around the shaft allowing it to run down into the motor. Work the shaft in and out (end play).....and give it a try.

I have performed the same exercise as Chev Nut has recommended with excellent results. However, if the fan motor is out of the car, and a new replacement is available, I would go that route.

Mr Mack brings up a very important safety issue with the butane/propane topic.

Any refrigerant that contains butane/propane should not be considered as a logical alternative to R12.
You are essentially building a BOMB!
If the car should be involved in an accident - would you want to be sitting inside when the A/C system exploded?

It has happened, and has been documented.

The R134A is the best alternative - although starting in 2009 it will begin a phase out as it too is not ecology friendly. Going from memory, the last production year for R134A is 2012.

Thanks Ray & Gene, Since the battery box and the inner fender must be removed from the car, I will go with abrand new blower motor. I have had good results with 49 - 54 Chevrolets of drilling an 1/8" hole and adding a few drops of 3-in-1 oil to the end of he blower shaft. But this 68 is a horse of another color.

Hey Brewcruiser,

Changing your R-12 to R134a Is about as simple as changing your oil. Drive down to Illinois, walk into walmart and buy your 134a in cans for $6 each. Just like buying a gallon of milk up here. Buy the ester oil there too. Change your schroeder valves, and the o-rings (even if they are still good, its not bad to change them out as long as your system is taken apart, they are about 4cents each)have your a/c evacuated to 29" of vacuum for half hour, have them add the oil. Go home add your r134a. Done. You don't have to change the drier, orifice tube or anything else. I have never changed them, and I have been driving my first a/c conversion since 1995, and it hasn't gave me a lick of problem yet. Investment of $100 for nice a/c

Can you imagine filling an A/C system with propane or butane? I think the only thing dumber than that Ist vollfullen die Hindenberg mit wasserstoff! (Filling the Hindenberg with hydrogen.

I just did another 134 retro-fit this weekend on an 87 Caddy Fleetwood Brougham for one of the guys that works for me(the last of the real big Caddy's)a sucess!
Stylemaster, for the life of me I can not understand why you would not replace the $5.00 oriface tube. It is like taking a shower to put on dirty socks! The one out of this caddy was all cruded up with all sorts of junk
John

Duh, the answer is simple. I am married. Sometimes I break things on purpose So I have an excuse to get away from da wife. By not replacing the Orifice tube, I have placed a $5.00 bet on freedom...

I like it!