VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Trucks and Vans 54 Chev 3104 color

I have seen the debates on engine colors recently and I want to know what the correct color for the engine is and the evidence to support it. I understand that at least one of the "experts" feels that gray is correct but what is that decision based off of? I have been taught to question someone that uses the words always and never. My 54 has been in the family for a good number of years but in all honesty, I don't remember an original engine color or really any engine paint at all when I rebuilt the engine personally 30 years ago. Speaking with the "old timers" they insist that blue is the correct color although it is a touch darker and I think a touch greener than the blue sold and advertised for "car engines". This debate came up and I went searching for evidence and a friend that buys old parts inventories had a hydra-matic what I call adapter plate that had the original blue paint. We felt that there was no question about it coming from a truck so felt it to be good evidence.

Now question is, if another person has a different opinion, is there any evidence to support their thought other than "someone else said"...Surely there is some factory documentation that would help settle this.

My thought process is that there were different assembly plants that more than likely used some locally aquired materials such as engine paint and therefore feel that there was a huge opening for variations from plant to plant.

As far as a single person perpetuating a possibly incorrect thought, I remember in a project that I was working on researching the differences between 69 and 70 Mopar 4 speed cars in particular, the fact that in 70, new safety issues came into play and the cars got reverse park and column lock linkages. I had the original factory communications to state the differences and why they took place. Anyway, I remember seeing a huge article on one of the first 70 Mopars to be certified a platinum restoration and was amazed to see that the lack of column lock parts sailed right past the entire judging staff.

I am interested in hearing all opinions but in particular, I want to hear about the evidence that backs up that opinion. I am more confused than ever.

Thank You, Greg H.

Greg, To quote the 1954 truck engineering manual "The 1954 truck engines are of the 235 cubic inch engine size and replace the 216 engine used in the 3100,3600,3800 and 4000 series trucks in 1953. The new engine is painted gray and is identified for the (above series) as the THRIFTMASTER 235 on the rocker arm cover."

All of the 235 truck engines for those series trucks was gray right till the end in 1962. The optional base V8 engines for those trucks was painted the same gray color.
The blue used on the passenger car engines tends to turn more green with age, especially when exposed to oil, grease, and dirt. I have a new balancer removed from a 1962 235 engine with the original nice blue paint. I will agree that some of the blues sold today are too bright althought tthe original was fairly bright.
The new for 1954 261 truck engine was painted Green. From 1955 and up it was yellow. The heavy duty version of the 235 used in the 6000 series from1955 and up became the green engine. It had better valves, valve rotators, etc. which proved better for heavy pulling.
There were only two plants that assembled and painted the engines, Flint and Tonnwonda.

Gene Schneider

Is there any way that you could share a scan from the engineering guide that you mentioned? Like I said, the more I read, the more confused I get. I do appreciate the info and source that you gave. At least that gives some weight to one side of the disagreement. Old timer's memories don't always register as gospel with me. I was told by one guy that insisted that he knew that the white top on my truck was not correct and that it only came that way "on ice cream trucks". Another insisted that the chrome vent window frames were someone along the way's customizing touch. I am not trying to build a concours truck as ther is no way I could make myself duplicate the factory's sloppy workmanship on the light blue "Chevrolet" stenciling on the two tone blue interior dash face. I would just like to know and see the supporting info that both sides can give. Thanks again.

Info. on the way

I assume that your truck has a DeLuxe cab. The early models could have a Shell White top along with the regular colors (some other tops colors available for white, cream and orange trucks. The early Dx cab models had a gray dash and door trim with gray and maroon vinyl seats. The late Dx cabs had "colored" interiors , cloth seat and matching colored floor mat. DeLuxe cabs had the chrome vent frames, dual horns,arm rest lighter, corner windows and more.
Never listen to the "old timers" as the memory can play tricks after years .... I know because I is one> :)
I sent the 1954 235, 261, and 1955 engine color info.
Gene

Thank You! I don't see it in the e-mail yet but will keep my eyes open. My truck has two tone blue interior, chrome window trim, chrome grille, corner windows, and pass side visor. The interior was re-done when I was very young and I don't recall ever seeing original seat material and I suspect both armrests went instead of being re-covered at the same time.

It has written in grease pencil on the underside of the hood "transport" which I assume is due to transport blue main body color. as well as some writing around the voltage regulator that I can't read. Oh yeah, and the white top. Would it have had a stripe with the white top? and what color?

Regarding the floor mats for the two-tone-interior cabs, what were the floor-mat colors that were available? And, were they rectangular mats that were placed over the full-width, black, standard floor-mat (or, were they full-length floor-mats in replacement to the original black floor-mat)?

I assume:
The blue/blue interior had blue mats
The green/green interior had green mats

What color were the mats for the:
- Pearl Beige/Maroon interior - Maroon mats?
- Birch White/Brown interior - Brown mats?

I saw a couple of years back on ebay a floormat that was advertised as the original floormat in blue. I am anxious to see an answer to your question. For some reason, I had in my head that they would be the same mat as the stock black one except poured in a blue colored rubber. In all honesty, I thought the original mat in mine was black but it was so badly torn up that in my youth, I took it out and disposed of it in favor of some carpet.

"I was told by one guy that insisted that he knew that the white top on my truck was not correct and that it only came that way "on ice cream trucks". Another insisted that the chrome vent window frames were someone along the way's customizing touch."

I have original paint on both of my '55 1st series trucks. Both are deluxe cabs. one is mariner blue outside (no white top) with grey interior, chrome vent windows. the other is yukon yellow body with white top and black pinstripe; interior is grey with maroon on the top of the dash, armrests and door cardboard were also maroon; vent window is trimmed with chrome.

Lyn Gomes

The late 1954-1955 1st design DeLuxe cab interiors were colored keyed to the exterior colors. As of Feb. the colors were green, blue, brown and maroon. Seat facings were cloth and front mat would have been one of those colors. The wind lace and arm rests were also matching. The early DeLuxe cabs had a black floor mat. There was no carpet or rubber topper made as an accessory other than that sold for a passenger car.
There were also three new two toned exterior colors, light green and Juniper Green, light blue and dark blue, and Birch white and brown and Pearl Beige and maroon.

Lyn and Gene.

Thanks for the information.

Three more questions (I hope you will bear with me):

1. The floor-mat with the beige/maroon interior would be a maroon full-sized floor mat?

I have two factory sales photos (1954) that show the yellow/white two-tone exterior: one has the yellow ending below the belt-line and the other has the yellow ending above the belt-line. In both documents, it looks like the pinstripe. mirror arms, tail/stop/signal lamps, and running boards are black).

2. The pin-stripe on the yellow/white exterior would be black. But, where would the yellow end on the body: above or below the belt-line?

3. I assume the white is: Pure White, PPG:8080; Dupont:93-21667?

Also, to answer Greg's question above: would the body/belt-line pinstripe on his blue/white exterior have been cream medium or ???

Thanks,
Tim

Tim, not to claim my truck to be reference worthy but the white top on mine has always been at the bottom of the belt line or the deeper of the two lines. I am enjoying this thread and feel like I have gained a ton of information branching off of my original question. Thanks to all!

I too, am enjoying this thread, even though I know nothing about '54 trucks. Tim, on the other hand, is an idol of mine! He's got one of the best websites that I have ever bookmarked as far as original information on AD trucks! Tim, I tip my ballcap to you, my friend. Here's a link to his website. http://www.1954advance-design.com/

Tim,
1. The floor mat would have been the mat that replaced the black mat. Not a topper type of mat. In looking back over my info it says that the floor mat was color cordinated with the interior colors. It does not mention the actual colors. I am assuming that the beige/maroon interior wold have had a maroon mat. My 1957 parts book shows the other three colors but not the maroon. Its very possible that Chevrolet discontinued the maroon mat form parts by that time. I doubt if the brown mat would have looked OK with the maroon......by 1959 only the blue mat was still available for the 3 speeds but the 4 speed blue and green were still in the parts book.
If the factory pictures are not actual photos I would doubt them. I would suspect that the color line would have been at the body crease and the stripe in the location of the single color stripe.
Mirrors, running boards, tail lights would be black,
The info I have says the trucks with the white top would have white wheels and the wheel stripe would be the color of the lower body. That being the case the body stripe would have been the same color as the wheel stripe.
Black stripes were used on some light colored single colored trucks.
In another place its says the late type DeLuxe cab 2 tone models had the wheels painted the lower body color with tripple striping....color not mentioned.

I have probably raised more questions here than I answered.

The 1954 parts book nad Engineering manuals do not list the 2nd design interiors as they were not introduced at the time the books were published.
The Filling Station sells a 1954 truck data book ($29.50) but may not have all the latest changes. If it did it would be worth the money.

Everything ChevNut says and more:
1. The floor-mat with the beige/maroon interior would be a maroon full-sized floor mat?
The floor mat is gone in both my trucks. When I take the seat out, I'll check for remnants. If I could find a maroon floor mat, that would be outta sight! Oh man, another unobtainable to drool for.

I have two factory sales photos (1954) that show the yellow/white two-tone exterior: one has the yellow ending below the belt-line and the other has the yellow ending above the belt-line. In both documents, it looks like the pinstripe. mirror arms, tail/stop/signal lamps, and running boards are black).
On my truck, yellow ends below the belt line. pinstripe is black, about a half inch above. Look for mother trucker's responses on pinstripe - it was very helpful.
On my truck, running boards are yellow (Yukon Yellow). Tail lamps are black, but I doubt they're original to the truck. It had no exterior mirrors on it, so I can't be of help there.

3. I assume the white is: Pure White, PPG:8080; Dupont:93-21667?
That's what my research says.
I found the following site helpful for color codes:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/5420.htm

And this article (with links to Dupont's color chip library):
http://www.automotivechronicles.com/articles/2007/mar/02/index.php

I also have the original front grille. The paint is like nothing I've ever seen on a restored truck. In general, the outermost portion is chrome. The inner portion is white. Some parts are yellow too, but I can't remember right now. There is no pin stripe. I'll take a picture this weekend and post it.

Oh, and Tim, your site is awesome. I bookmarked it when I first started my research. Thanks for making your info available!!

Gene & Lyn,

Thanks very much for the information. You have been quite helpful and I hope you do not mind more questions.

I have three 1954 Chevrolet Truck Data Books printed on the following dates:

1. Original: June 22, 1953 USA (the RPO section had a page that said the RPOs would be mailed later).

2. Original: January, 1954 Canada (has a March 1954 addition: with Truck Colour Combinations, including Two-Tone Colour Options).

While the Canadian colours are different from the USA colors, the Two-Tone Colour Sheet does state that the upper colour (Bengal Grey) covers the "Body Upper and Crease MLDG (just as your describe).

3. Reproduction: October 29, 1954 USA (includes RP0 430/431 De Luxe Cab Equipment). The paint-color section only gives 1955 (first series?) colors.

Here is a (quick-and-dirty) web page with some photos. For the two-tone options, look at the variety of wheel/exterior colours and the combinations of stripes colours (wheels and body stripes) listed in the Canadian Truck Data Book.

I had hoped that the yellow was supposed to stop at the top of the belt-line but you have convinced me that the bottom of the belt-line (at the cab seam) is the transition point.

So, I think my truck will be (please comment, if you think that the original spec was different):

- Yukon Yellow/Pure White exterior with transition at the cab seam
- Black mirror arms, running boards, tail/stop/signal lamps
- Black pinstripe 1/3 of the way up on the belt-line
- No pinstripes on my black wheels because they will have full wheel covers
- Pearl Beige/Maroon interior two tone
- Chrome grill with pure-white inner bars (middle and lower) - I have this on one of my trucks

Should the front and rear license brackets be yellow or black?
Should the bed-to-running-board apron be yellow or black?
Should the bed-side spare-tire carrier frame be painted yellow or black?
Is there a cover on the back of the seat frame ? If yes, what color?

Finally, Lyn (& Gene ?), Greg & I are interested is obtaining photos of various parts of the cab interior sheet metal and upholstery. We are particularly interested in cab color transition lines and the style of the upholstery (especially a few close-ups of the stitching and of the two-tone weave size/pattern). Would you mind taking some photos if I send you a disposable camera and list of shots?

Thank you for your advice and assistance.

Tim
lederman@siena.edu

Tim, I think we're building the almost same truck!! :) Glad to see someone else with an excellent sense of taste! My wheels will be different (chrome or painted with the center hubcap) and my running board will be yellow. Mirror arms will be chrome. Tail lights will be black. I'm toying with the idea of keeping the front top-of-fender turn signals. What do you think?

The following answers are my opinion:

Should the front and rear license brackets be yellow or black?
black or chrome.

Should the bed-to-running-board apron be yellow or black?yellow, Since the bottom of this piece is in line with the bottom of the cab, it will help with the "lines" of the truck.

Should the bed-side spare-tire carrier frame be painted yellow or black?
The ones I've seen are black. I dont know if this makes too big of a difference since it'll be covered with the tire. Oh, and while we're on the subject, I'll be putting on a side-spare tire carrier too. Can I pump you for info on it?

Is there a cover on the back of the seat frame ? If yes, what color?
Not sure. Non-original upholstery in both my trucks.

Finally, Lyn & Gene, Greg & I are interested is obtaining photos of various parts of the cab interior sheet metal and upholstery.
No need to send a camera. I'll take pictures of the yellow truck interior this weekend and post a link here. Can't provide pics of upholstery as mine is not orig. Gene, I'd love to see what you've done for upholstery.

I'm sure we already laid it to rest, but I checked out the page from your previous post, and the paint scheme shown in the picture below "Below, the lower color ends at the bottom edge of belt-line (crease molding) - the bottom edge is the cab seam" is exactly what my yellow truck has (except, its, ummm, yellow). Also, the info from page 15 was very helpful - thanks for posting it. The options for the Deluxe cab are exactly what is in my yellow truck.

I don't want to lead anyone down the wrong path with my information. My info. is a little "thin" for the 1954 trucks. If anyone wants to do a restoration that is completely original or just a feature there are two technical advisors in the VCCA for trucks of this year. Their advise/info. would be the most complete and you have two guys to get the info. from. It is necessary to be aa VCCA member for this service.

The license plate brackets are black.
The running board apron is body color.
Spare tire carrier parts black.
No cover on back of front seat.

Gene,

Thanks again for the advice and information. At this point, the seat upholstery material is my main question.

I am looking for someone who has a 1954 two-tone truck that is unmolested. I have found that is the best way to get the most reliable information. I have a 2-degrees-of-separation contact with a collector that has an original green/green 1954 truck with 18,000 miles on it, and I will contact him for photos of the seat material.

Greg,

Maybe that fellow in CT has a Hydra-Matic (I saw his truck about 14 years ago, so I cannot remember). I'll ask him about the engine and transmission colors.

Tim

Tim,
If you get more info could you share it with us.

Tim, I found these pics on my laptop at work. I believe that they are of a truck in CA? The only reason I say that is I talked with a guy that said he found an original deluxe cab two tone blue interior that he desribed as having the original seat material under seat covers as these pics appear to show. He said he primered the truck to protect everything. I got the impression from the phone call that the glass, chrome, and trim were included in the primer treatment.

Anyway, look at the pics and see if they answer or raisw more questions. Thanks again to all, I didn't realize how much info would come out of this thread when I posted the original question.

Note that the engine is a 1955-58 engine. Probably from a car.

A WORD OF CAUTION:

The hobby needs to be mindful of not re-writing history. Printed factory information is sometimes misleading and forensic discovery of old documents with references to specific things might have been the intent of the factory at the time the document was written, but I have seen many instances when it was later discarded and never happened. There are dozens of these types of documents that I have relating to GMC for example.

Getting reliable information over 50 years old on specific details on any marquis (Chevy, Pontiac, GMC, etc) can be a significant challenge. I encourage hobbyists, just like a good journalist, to verify any and all information from multiple sources before taking it as gospel and the way it was.

I have been told by GM Archives that I have the largest library of original factory information on GMC that they know of - my files for pre '60 are significantly more complete than their own. Even with hundreds of thousands (literally) of pages of factory data and publications, there are many areas of history which remain a mystery because the information is hard to verify.

I have been following and watching this thread since Greg started it and respectfully remind all who read it to be careful that history is not re-written: if someone says something and then it is repeated three or four times, it somehow becomes fact whether it is or not.

I have four original '54 Chevy Truck Data books from various time periods (late '53, early '54, mid '54 and late '54) and not one of them has any reference to engine color. Each data book update picks up subtle little changes. A late '53 (for '54) Data Book has intended changes but some of those intended changes never happened and the subsequent updates drop them or change them. A single source of information is dangerous to use if unverified by other sources, and I am only offering a reminder here to be careful about firm statements on anything that is taken as gospel.

It would be nice to scan and post that Engineering document that was referenced so that others may have that information to try to verify through other sources in the future.

With the power of this internet bulletin board, it is easy to share information and documents. After all, isn't preserving history what this is all about?

If anyone is intrested in obtaining documentation of their own pertaning to 1954 truck engine colors they can order a copy of the 1954 truck Engineering Features manual. Its available from the Filling Station for a mere $12.00 ...The 1955 Engineering Manual has the same information for 1955 trucks, That manual is $15.00. The engine was gray for 1955 also. :) It also appears in some shop manuals as the engine color was one way Chevrolet used to assist technichans in indentifing the engine a vehicle had.

Last week I did scan the info and send it to Greg.

OldCarKook,
May I ask you to submit an article on the subject of using literature to verify what is historically correct on our old GM vehicles? What you have written in your post is "spot on" as our Aussie brothers would say. I feel that way too many people either find something written that matches their opinion and then use it to substantiate "what they know to be true".

As you well know research into how it was done and what was done in the past is never finished. Keeping an open mind and incorporating new information are important to "get it right". Another important factor is the experience of older folks that will too soon be lost if it is not gathered and documented.

I think that the article can be published in numerous places and have significant benefit in the effort to preserve history.

I do not trust copied or reproduced manuals. There are a lot of "repopped" manuals and literature that contain incorrect information out there. Reproduced literature is frequently incorrectly titled; sometimes one page got mangled in the copier so they used a page from another book that they "thought" would be right; and often they just misunderstand the document that they are copying. Is a Truck Data Book with a date of October '53 a '53 or '54 Data Book? In my experience, "it depends".

The saddest part now is that eBay has empowered thousands of thieves to bootleg unauthorized copying of things for profit and that has further damaged the reliability of copied information as facts and pages get jumbled and mixed up.

If its not an original factory document, then I feel that you are potentially taking a giant step towards re-writing history if you take that information as gospel. Again cross check and verify the information from mulitple sources using ONLY original documents.

This is one view of something that appears to be one way:


This is the same thing but looking from the other direction:


The point of this is to illustrate how looking at anything from only one source does not tell you the whole story. That same rule applies to this topic.


In legal matters, a copy of something would be considered like a hearsay statement and is inadmissible in a legal proceeding. We should be using the same standard in these types of issues.