VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Trucks and Vans Bed Finish

Can anyone tell me what a good finish is for a new PU truck oak bed? (The bed is new, not the truck.)

Thanks,

Art M

Several good coats of spar varnish. To improve on this, sand between coats.

Hey Ray, I don’t doubt that this has been discussed a thousand times in the past but I have the typical search problem many others do, i.e., it comes up with 400 unrelated threads. Being new to the forum I was not privy to the discussions in the past. In my case I’m restoring a 1950, 3604.

The original planking was yellow pine in all cases, yes? And the paint was black, right? What color black!! I mean, what are today’s senior restorers or experts applying for an accurate representation of the original finish and what is accepted in the judging arena??? Gloss, semi gloss, one coat, multi coat, lacquer, enamel, was it originally brushed or sprayed? I would assume that all the bed floor parts, angles rails, planks and bolts were painted before they hit the assembly line and were installed in the bed, is that correct?

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

If you want to be completely original make sure you order your bed kit without countersunk holes. The holes for your offset washers were not countersunk in the 50's. I bought countersunk wood but I did not build my truck for judging. I also put a S/S bed and bolt kit and four coats of MCcloskey Man O' War Spar Varnish. I think that is the best varnish. You must paint all of the wood including the ends and the holes. I have met people that have only painted the top and that won't last long. Also make sure you assemble the whole kit on your truck before you paint it. I marked the ends of my planks to know where they went when they were completed. The most important thing is to take your time and make sure your paint or varnish is completely dry before handling it. Here is a good link for your Pars idf you are interested. (FREE SHIPPING). I hope this helped...Oscar


http://www.mar-k.com/

Denny,

Maybe my two cents here will help you some. Originally the yellow pine bed wood was soaked in creosote and then painted a flat to semi flat finish for your year range. Here's is what I've done in the past. I always prefit the entire bed first and then after disassembly, I go over the bed wood by hand sanding it, just to take off any roughness I missed earlier. Clean and tack first and then I apply a black oil stain that I make up myself and let that soak in well. I usually let that sit for a few days. The best paint finish I've come up with so far, is to use Rust-o-leum satin black paint reduced with acetone. A good three coats, decreasing the reduction of acetone as I go. I usually start off reducing by 25%. The bed strips I paint with black enamel. I don't like a extra high gloss, but I don't agree with a semi or flat black like some say it should be. I'm not sure what the VCCA requires for judging, but I know the AACA has just changed their ruling on the finish of pickup bed wood, but they claim everything should be flat black. Again, I disagree. I recently completed a ground up restoration on a '51 3604. I'll try to post a picture of the bed here for you to see.

If I missed anything, please feel free to ask. I hope this helps as well.

This is a subject that should be discussed with the TA. (That is why we pay them the big bucks).

Thanks Rick, that's one purrrty Stovebolt ya got there. Sure would hate to have to haul anything in that bed though. I'd like to see more pictures. Hope you don’t mind my pressing you for a few answers; I’m one of those old dudes that isn’t satisfied until I get the whole picture clear in my mind. Creosote you say? That's the first time I've heard that the boards were treated with Creosote. I’d only heard reports that they were painted. Do you recall where you heard or saw that?

My bed wood is still 95% intact in my 1950, 3604. It has no rot but all of the wood is swollen and all of the grain has opened up so it’s slated to be replaced in the restoration.
I’m hoping to find clear face sawn yellow pine since that is what the original wood is. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2580927980098611668bOqLXB . The only remnants of a finish that I can see on the boards now are a few bits of what appears to be, black paint. The inside of the box could have been repainted at some time but I’m sure that the underside has never been touched. When I get into restoring the bed I should be able to see clean spots under the cross supports where the original paint is still in tact.

Ray, forgive me if I misunderstand your meaning about the TA’s. I thought this was a discussion forum to share information on the restoration of old Chevy’s. As far as the TA’s go, as I’ve said before, I have been a member since Oct of 2006 and tried contacting the TA’s on several occasions and I’ve never gotten any answers back. If my memory is correct, the one exception would have been you. I believe you did get back to me with some questions when I was restoring the two AD radios. If a member could only contact a TA with a question then how is it to get out to the rest of the membership??

Without sounding snobbish, I consider my self a preservationist and am only seeking the accurate restoration materials and procedures. I have no problem with the choices that others make for updating their vehicles. It doesn’t make any difference whatsoever to me what someone else uses as a replacement for bed wood or how they choose to finish it. After all, it’s their truck, their money and their statement that they are making. But I personally am not interested in replacing my bed wood with Oak, Teak, Cedar, Walnut, Maple, Purple Wood, Ash, Ebony or any of the other 1,000 species of wood, laminate, or composite flooring as some of the custom builders are doing.
Nor do I on my own truck, want the bed flooring finished with Spar Varnish, Polyurethane or twelve coats of color sanded base coat/clear coat.
My only purpose for posting to this thread was to learn more about what other members felt was the original finishing material used from the factory. Amazing as it may seem, the TA’s don’t have all of the answers, there are a few old timers out side the circle that can add to the knowledge base.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny--I feel that Ray is right, contacting the TA is good advise and your chances of getting a more correct answer is much better if you do so. I have saved myself much agravation, time and money by relying on this source. When I get a reply on a question I save it in case there is a dispute in judging. Posting questions in the open forum is great and usually makes for good reading but sometimes gets many different answers, some right, some wrong. I sometimes wait several days for a reply from my TA but what-the-heck! I ain`t in no hurry. I have paid the price of hurriedly doing a restoration only to have to re-do it. Opinions are plentiful, "GOOD" advise is priceless.

hoppy

I suppose I should start out here by making a appology for my post. I truly did not mean to step on anyones toes by making it and no, I am not a VCCA TA, nor a bonified expert by any means. I simply wanted to see if I could assist with Denny's question regarding how others and even some restoration shops handle restoring their customers truck beds. Maybe I read it wrong?

Other than placing a couple ads on this site, it was my first post in trying to assist and I thought I could do so here with Denny. Denny, if you would like to continue discussing your truck and would be interested in how I do things, I would be more than glad to help in any way I can. You can click on my name to get my e-mail address, or my website to look though, although I don't have it quite completed just yet. I will be quite honest with you in saying that I may not have all the answers to your questions, but I'll try my best to help you or anyone I can.

BTW ~ I have owned and operated my own restoration business going on 25 years now, employing up to 9 people at one given time and have restored antique automobiles for 7 years prior to that. Plenty of national award winners, including 5 AACA National Cup winners. No, not all have been Chevrolets, but I have restored quite a few of them. Today I operate with my son and we are currently doing 7 restorations, which is usually the norm. No, I am not a current VCCA member, however I was for many years. I've served as a region director 3 terms, several more times than that as assistant director, every year except for one as a member of the board, newsletter editor, but I never had the pleasure of being a National VCCA TA.

Anyways ~~~ Again, my apologizes and I'm sure the TA would be a wiser choice for Denny.

Mr. Hoover, with your reputation for fine restorations I don't think you owe anyone here an apology. You did a good turn explaining your process for doing a truck bed. As for a TA I have no praise or judgment against any of them. You don't have to have TA after your name to be an expert in restorations, and your reputation bears that out. (IMHO)
Thanks for sharing the information here, that is what it is all about.

Rick,

TA or not, the information you supplied to Denny Graham regarding the finish on bed wood was great. I hope you don't get gun-shy about posting here because someone seemed to imply that since you're not a TA, your advice might be incaccurate.

Mark

So now if every one has stopped boiling over and the steam has had a chance to condense, my question still remains on the table. Is there anyone amongst our membership or not, besides Rick, who isn’t necessarily a VCCA Technical Advisor, that knows for sure what the factory used on the original bed wood for a finish and is there any documentation that verifies his or her belief?
Persistent old bas&%$* ain’t I!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny-You be as persistant as you want, it`s guys like you that make this chat site worth reading. I`ve seen some of your accomplishments and they are great. I too am watching this thread hopeing to get some good info as I will be replacing the bed on a 53 5 window that belongs to one of our older club members. This will be the third time. The original wood I think was yellow pine, twelve years ago it was replaced with cypress and finished with valspar. We have the s/s strips with s/s carriage bolts which appears to be wrong and should be painted black. As for the wood that we will be using next, we have not decided. Using pine does not appeal to me, as this truck spends alot of time outdoors and exposed to the weather. We thought the cypress would hold up better than it did. The man that owns this truck does not have enough garage space due to his other old cars and sometimes it gets put to bed at night without the cover.

hoppy

Denny,
I don't expect you will get much more than opinions on the correct finish. Documentation of materials and finish on trucks is sparse to non-existent.

As an example I have a bunch of literature for 1931 Trucks (for which I am the VCCA TA). I so far have not found any reference to the type of coating on the truck bed wood. The pickups are described in a brochure titled "Newly Designed Commercial Bodies with Chevrolet Quality throughout" as "hardwood floor with special rolled-steel rub-irons..." "Cab and body finished in Bluebell Blue Duco." Despite this I have never found any floor wood with anything other than a black finish. I suspect they were thinking about the metal parts when the text was written.

I have some bed wood that apparently is original as it was removed from a '31 pickup bed and has the three-ribbed rub-iron still attached. (Since I don't have detailed history of the truck or was not there its entire life from assembly I can't personally attest to the originality.) It clearly is not oak or other recognizable hardwood. Sure looks like white pine to me but could be another conifer species or one of the softer “hardwoods”.

Another problem is the common practice of obtaining wood from sources local to the body plant. As wood in the local area became less available then they would extend the supply area or use other species or both. They also purchased large tracts of forestland in Southern states as the ”˜old growth’ Northern forests became depleted further changing the wood species used. Another complicating factor is the use of multiple suppliers who might interpret the specifications differently and/or use their own finish.

So personal observation and opinions are likely the best and most accurate. The problem remains as to which do you believe?

Thanks MrMack and Mark for the kind words. I appriciate that very much!

Denny, I thought I'd come back and answer your eariler question about creosote. I first heard and read about this many years ago from a friend of mine, who was well known in our area for his restorations and especially his knowledge of Chevrolets. He had some original GM or Chevrolet literature that explained the entire process. It may have been a Chevrolet Service Bulletin of some sort, but I can not recall. My friend passed away a few years ago, and I have no idea what became of his literature collection. The only other information I've ever come across that touched on this subject for the late 40's and newer trucks is the GM Truck Bed Assembly Manual that you can buy a copy of at most any Chevrolet Truck parts vendor store. I bought one from Jim Carter many years ago as well.

The Southern Yellow Pine was prefered, as it is the most durable of the softwoods. The reason for it being treated with creosote was because of it's rot-resistance and insecticide capabilities. It may explain why your wood is in as good of shape as you say after all these years? As you know, using creosote was common practice back then. As I recall, the creosote treatment was done by the suppiler prior to shipment to GM. The paint process was done at the plant and I believe vat dipped. The exact type of paint used, I don't remember, other than it being called a flattened black preservative. ( or something to that line) Anyways, that's about the best I can do without having my books here with me today.

One last suggestion ~ If you are going to use yellow pine, I would highly suggest you make sure it is seasoned wood and not green cut. That's critical when dealing with yellow pine at that thickness of the boards. I really wouldn't concern myself with it not being treated with creosote, in fact I don't believe you can even buy it anymore these days, but I would suggest you allow enough penetration with a good oil base stain prior to paint.

Again, I hope some of this helps you and good luck with your truck.

Chipper I have original Chevrolet information from my 1934-38 Chevrolet Engineering Indianaoplis Body paint blue prints; 1934-36 all Single unit trucks (Panels, Suburbans(35-36), Canopy express trucks) used a lead free wood primer Chevy p/n 466930 (DuPont #7605) on all body wood and p/n 118500 (DuPont #163) Black Wheel Finish Enamel on all floor top surfaces. Same paints used in 1937 & 38. Exposed wood floor in the 34-36 pickup box was painted body color. 37-38 Stake Platform floor planks are made from thoroughly seasoned wood, treated with preservatives to guard against rotting and scuffing. 37-38 Suburban had a stained floor. See member photo for sample of print.

Well Chipper, first of all, thanks for responding, and I’m gonna have to reword my earlier statement about none of the TA’s ever answering back, now you’re the second TA that has answered. I’m glad it wasn’t with a PM and that the rest of the group could share in the answer also.

All of what you say seems logical, so I guess the best one could do is simply find a vehicle with known original materials and try to match them up with that. I guess that would kind of shoot down that “Golden Rule” that all the bed floors were supplied in Yellow Pine.

And thanks Rick for your input. Did a little research on Creosote. Still used but only commercially for utility poles and RR ties the ratio being about 70% to 30%. It’s a pesticide that is being reviewed later this year by EPA. The Creosote Council is presenting a paper to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to support the re-registration of it as a pesticide in Oct., 2008. Here is EPA’s take on it. http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/factsheets/chemicals/creosote_main.htm
The modern day alternatives for creosote are CCA (Chromated Copper Arsenate) and pentachlorophenol (penta). And I believe that penta is now off the market also.

The information that the pickup man has posted seems to back up what you were saying about the use of “thoroughly seasoned wood, treated with preservatives to guard against rotting and scuffing.” It’s a little sketchy but the conclusion that I would draw from the “Body paint blue prints” posted is that the planks were then painted with an enamel. I tried printing out the photo but the resoluton of the thumbnail was to low to make out any of the text details. Although this document is from an earlier pre-war period the processes most likely continued on into the post-war production also.

Also, as was mentioned, the boards were vat dipped with a “flattened black preservative,” I’m not exactly sure how that fits into the picture. Did they mean that the presrvative was simply a flat black enamel?
The statement from the “Body Paint Blue Prints“ that “Exposed wood floor in the 34-36 pickup box was painted body color,” is something that I haven’t heard before. Does that mean that the pick up floors during that period could have been red or blue, etc?

Now at this point I would think that if one could find Face Sawn Yellow Pine, soak it well with a thinned down black enamel such as Rust-Olium and mixed with a preservative such as, TWP and it would probably be as close as one could come appearance wise using the chemicals avalable today.

Well I don’t know about you all, but I feel like I learned a bit more this week than I knew last week, thanks for the discussion guys. And I hope if anyone else has any more to add that they will step up to the plate.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny if you click on the thumbnail and then click on this picture you will find the picture increases to full screen and is readable. Yes on the 34-36 pickup box floor in all of my data and all of Chevy's pictures show the floor as body color. I have the original Chevrolet Engineering Body blue print of the box. Black Wheel Enamel (DuPont paint was used) for all interior wood floor top surfaces & other sides of the wood was coated with a wood preservative that was more like a black stain (not creosote). All the pickup boxes in 34-36 years were Southern Yellow Pine haven't found anything different on original boxes. Cab wood is a different story a mix of hardwoods.

I'll also want to stick up for the VCCA Tech. Advisers they do a dam good job. It is all volunteers (no pay) they are people too and this not all they do! TA's work other jobs, take vacations, have families, etc. they may not be retired. I have been a TA in the past and sometimes trying to answer questions for many people can't be done in ten minutes; especially if hours of research has to be done or if the TA is trying to cover many years of vehicles. You must have some patience at times to get an answer.

Very true, 35 pickup man, thanks for holding up for those volunteers, sometimes we forget what they give when we run out of patience, usually our own fault that we didn't seek help before the whole thing fell down around our ankles!

I haven't had to seek their help for a long time, it seems that help arrives in a posting here on ChatterII, in a hurry! Sometimes we even get more information and more ways of doing something than we asked for.......That is OK by my book......

Today everybody wants instant answers! Thanks MrMack.

Must be something with my computer, I always get the "click for full size" hand pointing to the picture but it will not open the larger view.
I probably wouldn't get much more out of it than what you have already posted. Thought it might be a nice additiong to my referance library since there is so little of that material left. Thanks anyway for posting what the text said.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thanks for takin' the time to post your very informative information on bed wood preparation Hoover.


Don't let Denny get under your skin...
He gets carried away sometimes & tends to " grind " on the other members around here... { which is something I would hope the moderators will address here }

Hello this is Dennis from Lansing MI.I know i`m new to this sight.If any needs photos of the original wood out of my 36 low roof .I can send them photos.I removed it two weeks ago and kept it for reference.Dennis

Ok, so I'm not a member, but this post has convinced me to become one, today. Thanks everyone for your efforts - this discussion was extremely useful for me.

About this newbie: I own two 1955 1st series chevy trucks. I'm embarking on a make-two-into-one restoration. I toyed with the idea of going all original, but I'm making a few concessions to safety and driveability: new differential; front disc brakes; lap belts; new (but original looking) solid-state radio (would love to get an old tube one, though). Everything else will be stock. I want the truck to look very stock. I just love the high, jouncy ride of these old trucks. Turning the steering wheel back and forth to keep you goin' straight down the road is a bonus. I love these trucks!