VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1941 Horn/steering column

I'm working on the steering box on my 41 auto. and have had the steering wheel off and the steering mast jacket out. I'm putting things back together and have a few questions.
First, under the steering column grummet is a foam gasket. Does this gasket go on the inside on the front floorboard or on the outside next to the shift linkage in the motor compartment?
Second, when you purchase the "Bearing Mask-Jacket" kit from Chevy of the 40s (pg. 64 with parts picture, in 2008 catalog) it comes with a 7/8" metal ring that can be slid onto the shaft that holds the steering wheel. Where is this metal o-ring suppose to go? This particular kit has a wire on the bearing that is only 24 inches long for the horn? I think it needs to be about 6 or 7 feet long so it can go out the jacket hole a foot from the steering box? So I think I should just solder a longer wire onto the bearing? I think that this wire is suppose to plug into the horn relay on the engine compartments firewall?
Third, my horn ring has not worked because the wire came unsoldered from the bearing. So a horn button was installed under the horn ring on the jacket of the steering column. As I am cleaning up the horn contact parts for the horn ring. I wonder if I have all the parts? There is a picture of all the parts in the "1929_1954 Chevrolet Master Parts & Accessories Catalog" which is on the Web at Http://chevy.tocmp.com/1929_54chevyparts/02/ 176.HT... in that picture it shows 2 cups with the part number of 2.819. I have only one cup on my horn assembly. Is this picture incorrect? I hope my questions have not been too hard to understand? Thanks Mike

Mike
I am not familiar with the 41 setup but I think the horn wire exits the mast jacket between the dash and floorboard, look for a small hole just below the top support behind the instrument cluster, from there there should be a connection into the main wire loom.
Tony

Mike,
The opening in the firewall - The foam rubber goes to the inside of the firewall opening and part of it can be seen from the engine compartment. The big rubber gromet that the column goes through comes next.(inside the car) and ontop of the firewall pad (I believe)
The upper horn bearing required the wire to be soldered on. The wire exited the column just below the firewall. There is a bayonet type connector at that location .
I can't picture the metal O ring you mentioned

Gene, Please checkout the parts picture on the web at the address I mentioned above. I would like to know if you think this picture is accurate. I see no need for 2 cups. Thanks for the help with the grommet--Mike

MIke,
The same picture is in the 1941 parts book and I believe that it is correct. The smaller ortop cup is for contact (grounding)...the large lower is for adjusting the horn ring travel.....I haven't worked on one of these for years so am a little vague

My 1940 horn wire exits the mast jacket in the engine compartment about 1/2 way between the steering box and the firewall.The hole in the mast jacket for the horn wire to come out points down towards the ground.
I purchased a mast jacket upper bearing / horn contact from Chev's of the 40's many years ago. It was made mainly out of plastic and it was definitely very poor quality. I have no idea if they are using the same supplier or not. I have since found an NOS genuine original and it works with great quality.

dtm

I have just repainted my steering wheel and want to put it back and also connect the horn, so this discussion has been a great help to me. I hope I can jump into this discussion for some additional advice.

Gene has stated that the wire that exits the mast in the engine area needs to be soldered. Where is it soldered? I have a wire that comes out of the mast in the engine area just after the firewall. I assume this is to be conncected to the horn relay. Should the other end be already soldered to the shaft?

As I look at fig 176 I don't see how contact is made at the steering wheel to complete the ground. It is when the cap touches the bolt on the shaft?

Also, (again looking at figure 176) how does the cap stay attached to the steering wheel without having the spring push it out?

Hi Dave, The wire that provides a connection to the horn ring is attached to the bearing casing which is called a "bearing" in the picture on page 176 (part number 6.521). See a good picture in Chevy of the 40s 2008 parts manual pg. 64. As I understand it, the wire is connected to the horn's relay switch and is always hot (has electricity going to it). To make the horn work the wire needs to be grounded. This is accomplished when the horn cup is pushed on by moving the horn ring. The ring comes in contact with the one of the wheel moldings (see picture pg. 176 part number 2.838). The cup contacts the edge of the bearing which is bronze and isolated by a rubber edge next to the jacket(steering column mast)and the ground is completed. The nut shaft, shaft or outer jacket is never hot or you would get a shock by touching it. The wire running inside the jacket to the relay is behind the bearing where you can not see it. Do not try to remove the bearing unless you are going to replace this hole piece (bearing wire and bearing). I don't know if this is explained well enough? My question for you Dave is do you have the ring type horn or the button type? If you have the ring type do you have two cups (part number 2.819) on your horn? I only have the one and I do not have everything together to see if it works.
Thanks, Mike

Just to clarify, The wire from the mast bearing exits the column about half way betweem the wheel and the firewall. There is a connector for it in the underdash wiring harness, that will connect to the horn relay. It provides a GROUND to make the relay activate, it is NOT a "hot" wire.

I have a Master De Luxe which has the button type (bottom drawing on fig 176), not the ring type.

Currently I have a wire coming out of the underside of the jacket about 5" into the engine from the firewall. It is not connected to anything but appears to be just long enough to connect to the relay. The other end should be the wire Gene wrote is soldered to the mast somewhere between the entrance hole and the bearing in at the end of the shaft. I do not see any wire or exit hole in the jacket inside the car for this wire to exit.

I also have a wire that is connected to the first (passenger side) of the relay. That wire makes a Y with another wire that goes into the firewire and then proceeds to the starter.

According to the wiring diagram in the 41 shop manual, I need to conncect the wire from the middle connection on the relay to the horn. The wire from the mast that exits inside the engine should be connected to the connection on the driver side of the relay.

Since my previous post I got out my parts and I see that there are three prongs on the retainer (which I did not see on fig 176). It appears as though the cap is pushed over these prongs and twisted into three slots on the cap to secure it.

If all above is correct, I am down to one conncection. How is the ground activated? Is it when the cap is pushed against the shaft and nut inside the steering wheel? If so, why doesn't it ground when the wire is soldered? the wiring diagram shows the wire connected to the cap.

The wire soldered on to the shell of the bearing should exit the mast jacket under the hood. About 3 inches will be exposed. There will be a bayonet type connector at this point, with the "other half" of the wire continuing to the relay. This connects to one end of the relay, the 1942 wiring diagram shows its to the left side (if the relay is mounted say on the firewall).The center wire on the relay is the "hot" wire. It gets fed from the larger wire going from the starter to the ammmeter. ....or you could run a seperate 14 Ga. wire from the positive battery terminal on the starter directly to the relay. The terminal on the "other end" of the relay has the wire that runs to the horns.
When all this is connected correctly and the steering wheel is removed grounding the outer brass ring of the bearing to any ground (like the center steering shaft) should ground out the circuit and cause the relay contacts to close and the horns to operate. On the Master DeLuxe there is a cup, a grounding spring and the horn button retainer under the steering wheel. There will be another spring under the horn cap which is a return spring for the cap. Depressing the button moves the retainer under the wheel down but from there I don't undersatnd just where the ground is made. Would have to see the pieces to figure it out.
I don't know if this will help to shed a little light on the problem. The shop manual is of no help in this area.

Just replaced my bearing and soon will be installing it. it does come out in the engine compartment I am getting better at figuring out what is what on the 1941 town sedan and when I get it back together { this summer} I would like to find a few other 1941 members to join me in being listed for the tech advisors on 1941 as you all know there is none now.