VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 1933 HELP!

Hello all,

First I am only days into even knowing this discussion board exists, and you've already been a tremendous help just from my reading literally every post connected to 1933.

Here's my situation:
My family has a 1933 5-window, that is in virtually completely original condition with 22,000 actual miles. It has been garaged/covered since at least 1965. As I understand it, it had 19,000 miles on it when my father purchased it some time before he met my mother (about 45 years ago). I believe he may be the second owner. He purchased it from the proverbial little old lady who only drove it on Sundays. (Her name was Francis, and for all my 38 years, "Frannie" has been a part of our family every bit as much as any family pet. It is clearly the family jewel and is considered nearly sacred.

It's his car, it's his baby, and after 25 years or so of not moving (in an uheated, unpaved shed.) but at least being covered and have the rare work on it, he's decided to actually operate it. We drove it into it's current home. She "should" run.

Now it has to move beyond "should." In fact, it's been cast in a major Hollywood production about John Dillenger and the beginnings of the FBI. The catch: Frannie has to be operable by March 19th … Chevgene, I see that you're in West Allis. I'm guessing that you at least knew of the casting calls for this film? Are you participating? Do you know anyone who is?

We know of two problems right now.

There is a block in the fuel line somewhere between the tank and the carb. We tried pressurizing that line with air and can't get it cleared. Surely it's old fuel that has gummed up. Suggestions? We'd even consider running a temporary fuel line for the short-term and then resolving the original line's issue later.

When you press on the brakes, the pedal is stiff, but not overly so, but then doesn't return on its own. You can easily lift it back up with a toe, but then there's no resistance going back down again until you get to where you stopped the first time. Seems likely that linkages are all just stiff and that some greasing/oiling would cure that issue.

HOWEVER in both cases, we'd just like to get the opinions of those who KNOW, rather than just starting off with what we THINK we ought to do next.

Any help/advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. Clearly we're on a very truncated time table. We're not going to do anything to put her at long-term risk, yet the impetus of having this deadline and this potential novelty/claim-to-fame has been enough to get my internet-phobic father motivated to action.

I realize this is long-winded, and I apologize. I'm trying to keep momentum going!

~Michael

I would forget the movie and take your time on getting this car back on the road. You could do more harm then good in that time frame. If they want her in the movie so bad then they should pay to get her safe and on the road. Otherwise I would tell the movie people to stick it. That is my opinion...Oscar :) :)

Yeah, my opinion too! after the movie folks finish filming the car they may not care how the car looks or drives. Get an agreement in writing!

I have done a few cars in movies. Be sure and get a copy of the
production co. insurance coverage.. Make sure it covers items
of paint destruction, upholstery ripping, accessories (mirrors)
being broken. They might require a list of car condition prior to furnishing this but you should have this coverage.

The agreement states that we will drive it, one of us will be with it at all times and that it will be fully insured at their expense (in addition to the coverage we have, of course) throughout the production. We have reserved the right to walk away at any point in case they want something we don't want to do. Because, of course, all the insurance in the world can't replace the irreplaceable.

I work in the film industry, and the people associated with this production are topnotch. My job here is to protect our assets, and I'm doing due diligence in that regard. In my work as a line producer, I've often been the liaison between the director and the person who has that unique, often valuable, item that the director want to use … from cars rarer and more valuable; to vintage, last-one-left, aircraft; to WWII submarines. Fear not the film crew. She'll not come to harm by their hands. I can ensure that. My hope here is to ensure that we avoid any common mistakes in bringing her out of mothballs … literally; there's a box of them on the floorboard … and harm her ourselves.

For example, I'd never heard of POR 15 before reading about it here. Now, when we get to that stage with any of our vehicles (We've also got a '49 pick-up, a '62 Impala and a '66 Chevelle.) I'll be very sure to know what the restorer's techniques are and his views on POR 15 before they get the job.

Other than C.Y.A., does anyone have practical advice?

I just can't understand how you can get a car that has been sitting since 1965 ready and running right in 14 days for a movie
or even a test drive as far as that goes...Oscar :( :( :(

Oscar,

It hasn't been sitting in neglect for 45 years. It hasn't been on the road in approximately 20. I'd like to think there's something of a difference, but only practical application of elbow grease will tell the tale.

She's SOLID, the tires are still up, It turns over, both by the hand crank and with the starter. The lights work, all the wheels spin freely while in neutral. It drove into its storage shed. The doors close better than my in-law's middle-'90s Ford. Much of the paint is still better than anything I've seen come from a factory in the last 60 years.

But, again, only work will tell. I suppose we could just say, "Eh, ain't gunna happen, no sense in trying," and let it continue to sit until it hasn't moved for 45 years, the mechanics are rusted solid and those who have the know-how have taken their knowledge with them.

I really wasn't hoping to get into a debate one whether or not it could or even should be done. I was hoping to learn from others how best to do it. The film has acted as a catalyst. Isn't that as good as any? If we try and don't make the shoot date, we're still better off than if it continues to sit in its storage shed and waits for for a "better" reason to work on it.

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised. We're not looking to chop her up and hot-rod her … we won't even put a second taillight on her because that's not the way she came from the factory. We're definitely taking the Purist approach. But other than "Cover Your Arse" no one's had any actual advice. What would the VCCA consider a worthy reason to bring a '33 Eagle out of hibernation?

Michael:
I don't think anyone is trying to discourage you from trying to get her back on the road in a very short time frame. To the contrary, we're all about getting all the old Chevies on the road end enjoying them to the fullest! Certainly the Eagle is worthy of getting on the road.

I do however detect several words of caution in some of the sage advice. The suggestions to go slow and do things right are worthy of consideration and meant to be constructive, but we're afraid that will take a lot longer than you may have time for. We don't know your mechanical abilities, so again we need to consider the entire undertaking carefully.

If you are a pretty good mechanic you may be able to fire her up and get her underway, but we do advise you proceed cautiously as many things can...and usually do...go wrong. Here's a short list of things to be done:
Check for obvious shortcomings and damage such as missing pieces, leaking hoses, leaking oil or coolant, etc. Remove all the mouse nests and debris.
Drain and replace the oil
Drain and replace coolant; lube the water pump.
Check or replace transmission and rear end oil.
Lube the generator and starter.
Clean or replace fuel line to pump, the fuel pump, the line from the pump to the carb and the carb. This will probably require disassembly and new gaskets along the way.
Remove/replace the spark plugs and squirt motor oil in the cylinders. Rotate the engine to make sure the bores are lubed. The rings will probably be stuck but may free up in time.
Replace the battery, remove and clean the ground strap and the starter connection.
Remove the wheels and drums and clean/lube the shoes; they are hanging up and may lock up if not cleaned and free. You may need to lube the brake cables if they are stuck. Also lube the brake pedal and connecting rods at all the joints
Lube the king pins and all the usual front end grease fittings.
Before starting the engine, prime the oil system by removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine until you get pressure at the gauge.
Crank the engine and check for spark from the coil to the distributor, and from the distributor to each plug.
Gap the plugs and points.
Move the car into the open away from combustible buildings and surfaces
Add fresh gasoline and prime the carb with a splash of fuel.
Did I mention a fire extinguisher? Have a big one on at the ready. Keep it in the car at all times and know how to use it.

I've probably left a bunch of things off the list. You may get it running if the car was in pretty good shape when last used. Often these cars were parked and forgotten because there was something wrong with it, so you may need to sort out any problems. Don't be surprised if the car overheats; turn it off and sort it out if she makes steam. Hopefully the temp gauge will work so keep an eye on it after starting. When an engine sits this long they tend to rust up so a good flushing before and after you first get it started may be in order.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

another thing to do is remove the valve cover and squirt some ATF or Marvel Mystery oil all around and thru the valve springs on all of the 12 valves, with the plugs out, turn the engine over and make sure all the valves move up and down freely. It isn't too common ,but sometimes a valve will stick in the valve guide and that can break either a rocker arm or break or bend a pushrod.

You might also want to check the heat rizer on the exhaust manifold just above where the exhaust pipe connects to the exhaust manifold to make sure it will work open and closed.

Michael,
Yes, I am aware of the production. I don't have an appropiate car and if I did I wouldn't be intrested. One of our local members did go and register his 1932 4 door.
The fuel problem. I would suspect that not only the gas line is plugged but the pick-up in the bottom of the tank probably is sitting in the varnish. The best solotion would be to have the tank cleaned at a radiator shop and the lines cleaned out. That being said and due to the limited time if it were mine I would get a gas tank from a lawn tractor or? and attach it under the hood in a safe place. Would run a gas resistant rubber hose from the bottom of the tank to the fuel pump. Now lets hope the fuel pump "pumps". With this tank it should be good for a 1/2 hour of running at least (or 6 to 10 miles) and could easily be refilled.
The brakes. I would get under the car with a spray can of penetrating oil and spray all the moving joints and connections. This includes the levers at the backing plates, etc. Check the cross shaft. There really is no place to grease these parts. If that helps I would go back and do it again with oil. The shoes may also be expanding in the drums and sticking to the drums. The front drums are easy to pull and inspect. Once they are used it may improve.
Thats a lot work for just two weeks. Would also change the oil and make sure it will not overheat when it does run. Thats another problem with a car that has been unused for that period of time. I would use a light oil or 10W-30 as we are still in the winter mode. If you could find it old fashioned #10 would be good and then change it again to 10-30 when it gets warmer (if it ever does)
What area of Wi?

Thanks guys,

The heat riser, I'm not sure we would have thought of, nor lubing the water pump. Progress today was the fuel system. I completely understand that we are talking about a ton of work here. Fortunately, we have somewhat of the ability to swarm the car. My personal experience in the realm is my '49 pick-up and the '38 coupe that was a race car that has been a race car for most of its life. Dear ol' Dad's experience includes not only this '33, but a '37, '46, '56 and more that I can't recall right now. Grandpap's includes all of the above and all those '30s coupes that he made into those race cars, as well as the '32 that made the family life-long Chevy people after having a Ford prior to that. (No idea what that Ford was, but it was apparently bad enough that it banned Fords from the premises for 2+ generations!

So we're not incapable, but I know we're not out of the woods either. I'm hoping that we can avoid pitfalls by benefit of everyone else's experience.

ChevGene, I'm in based in Madison, the car is on the family homestead a little west of Dodgeville … which means lots of daily miles for me right now!

Michael,

Never forget--we're talking about a Chevrolet here--they're damn near bullet proof. With a low mileage car like yours, I can almost guarantee you if you follow the advice laid out by Coachill and Chevgene, that car will start and perfrom well in the movie production. Go for it!

I had a '33 Master 3-window coupe with 30,000 original miles on it. It had been been "restored" before I acquired it, so I didn't have the issues you do to deal with. I did have a problem with the brakes though--the front brakes would grab to the point of locking up at slow speeds, even with moderate pedal pressure. It made driving it nearly impossible. I tried adjusting the brakes per the shop manual procedure, but the problem persisted. In working on the brakes, I noticed that the brake lining material looked a little strange--almost like canvas webbing. Since no amount of brake adjustment or tweeking seemed to cure the problem, I got some replacement linings and rivets from a supplier in Minnesota and installed them. From then on the brakes worked like butter--I mean really well.

It sounds like your problem with the brakes is that the linkage is rusted and sluggish. A good cleaning and lubing of all moving parts should take care of it. Don't forget to check the front brake cables to make sure they are free.

Like an idiot, I sold my 33. How I regret that.

Good luck with yours.

Mark

Grianainech
I am not familiar with the 33 brake setup but as Chevgene and Coachill have suggested make sure all brake linkages, pivots, rods and cables are moving freely.
The can secured under the hood connected with rubber hose will work as a tempory measure providing the pump works which could be the next problem as the diaphram is probably stiff as a board and will fail (if it hasnt already) filling the sump with fuel.
Changing all oils and lubricating everything else is just as wise.
Tony

You can bypass the pump and go directly to the carb with your temporary fuel line. I only wish I could be there to help. It is my kind of project.

Mike

P.S. My son lives in Sun Prairie, near Madison.

Update from the weekend:

Short version: Wooooooo!!!

Saturday was fairly sobering. The entire ignition system was dead, even though it all LOOKED fine. The transmission was a rigid solid lump.

Sunday was much better. Fuel pump pumps strongly, the valves have been adjusted, new coil, points and wires. (Three cheers for being a dairy farm that dabbled in racing the '50s! We had all we needed stored away, "just in case," and the points from a John Deere A work just fine.)

She starts and runs smoothly.

The tranny has been very carefully taken apart, cleaned and reassembled. It seems to shift fine now. (She's not been back on the ground yet.)

We still haven't dug into the brakes … which is WHY she's still up in the air so she can't roll off!

We do have one mystery:

We can't get anything out of the fuel tank at the union of the tank and the fuel line. The line is off and cleaned out. We we've tried compressed air into all three of the holes in the tank … drain plug, fuel line union and filler neck. We can't even get air to come out of the fuel line union. We've run a flexible cable into that hole and it'll go in a foot, perhaps 18 inches before it seems to contact something solid. However, when the cable comes out, it's wet for the last several inches and smells like old fuel.

We drained the tank. Nothing scary came out … other than old gas. We tried blowing air in through that fuel line union, and it just won't go anywhere. We've pressurized the tank until it start to swell. Still nothing. So we've applied pressure on both sides, with no luck. Next, I suppose is taking the tank out completely and taking it to a radiator shop or boiling it out ourselves.

Is there a one-way check valve inside the tank that would prevent fuel from flowing backward away from the engine when you shut it off? Is there any sort of screen or filter inside the tank?

It appears as though we'll have to take off the back half of the exhaust pipe to get the tank out. Anyone have experience there? Can we take off the passenger-side strap, just loosen the driver-side strap and slide it out?

Brake-wise. To check out the rear drums, are we going to have to pull the hubs off?

Chevgene, I've got that photo of the interior body plate. I think the first figure is an L or an I, not a 1. The 1s in the number have the serifs like the 1s of this font. Thoughts?

No one-way check valve was used inside of the gas tank. There is a dip tube that runs across the bottom of the tank and it is probably plugged with old varnished gasoline.

:) :grin:

Mutt (or anyone),

It feels DARNED solid and immediate when that cable comes to a stop. Do you know how long that tube is and how it's oriented in the tank? It just doesn't feel like I'm running into gunk. The fuel drained right out of the tank's bottom drain plug. I would have expected more gunk on the top of the drain plug, and the initial stream to be more viscus, considering how abruptly the cable comes to a stop.

Possible that I've reached the end of that tube?

I'm sure there is gunk/varnish in the tank, however, and there's certainly no doubt that it ought to be cleaned. Is there a way to give it a decent cleaning while still in the car, or the only option to remove it and boil it?

The only option is to remove the tank and either boil it out or remove the end of the tank and have it bead blasted if it is really bad.

The dip tube runs across the bottom of the tank part way. The varnish in the tube can be hard enough that a cable cannot go through it. Been there and done that one!

:) :grin:

Hi,

If you elect (recommended) to remove the tank there are some steps to follow. 1st, is to have the tank boiled out at a radiator or dipping facility. This makes the tank safe to work on. A flap is cut on the TOP of the tank. This is necessary in order to blast all of the inside of the tank. The pickup pipe is most likely stopped up with rust scales. While the tank is open is the time to address that problem. After blasting, the flap is to be soldered back down. The top of the tank is not readily viewable when reinstalled on the car. When the tank is sealed back up is the time to line the tank with gas tank sealer. You can use the red or the white, but NOT the yellow snot. (Do a search for many entries on gas tank problems on this forum.) The tank must cure for at least a week before reinstallation. Be sure you get a good ground on the fuel gage sending unit. In fact it is recommended to attach a wire to one of the gage screws and to a good ground on the vehicle.

Good luck with your project.

Hello all,

Just an update to let you know that our '33 Eagle has returned to life relatively smoothly, and I'm typing this from a hotel room on location for the filming of Public Enemies (about the beginnings of the FBI and its hunt for John Dillinger).

Our setbacks were remarkably few:

The fuel tank issue hasn't been solved, only circumvented temporarily with a one-gallon tank. We'll boil the regular tank out once we're done with this sequence of shots.

The carb's gaskets were dried and shrunken, so that leaked a steady stream of fuel right toward the exhaust manifold, which had a bad center gasket with fire spitting out. There were a few moments of adrenaline there, but the raw gas never met the exhaust manifold before we got her shut down.

A pair of new gaskets, and both those problems seem to be gone.

I think we've got a rear brake slightly dragging. (We took the hubs off the front and loosened those up. We also repacked those bearings.)

Heck all the tires and tubes still held 35 PSI. We changed them all anyway, as those on it were documented as more than 40 years old and were pretty weather-checked.

So far the other movie cars have been pretty disappointing. Everything else that is privately-owned is a Ford or a high-end make.

There are two '34s owned by Universal here. Those are somewhat sad in that while they look darn nice from 50-ft. away, they're not much more than shells with a quick sandblast and quicker spray. One is running a Chevy 6, (Couldn't get close enough to tell what, specifically, but you know how a Chevy 6 sounds.) The other has a modern drivetrain with a V-8 and an automatic. (That one was still up on the trailer when I saw it, so I could see its underpinnings easily.)

Both are sedans.

I'm tempted to see if they'd be interested in selling the six-cylinder, post production!

Allegedly the Hero cars are to come in tomorrow.

Interesting. Keep us posted.

We had virtually no problems with our Eagle throughout the week on the film set. She up and died on us twice before we realized that our flexible tubing fuel line had become kinked. Once we got that plumbed correctly, it only took a touch of choking and a minute or two or warming up before she idled just fine, despite temps in the low 30s and high 20s.

It was interesting to compare notes with the other picture car drivers. There were several Fords and many higher-end cars, but everyone else was complaining of the cold. Apparently the Fords had poor heaters and quite a few of the others had no heater whatsoever.

We also found out that our car was chosen specifically by the director (Michael Mann), saying "That one's not a Ford. I want it." Mann is notorious for being very picky, very good, and very challenging to work with. I can see why to each.

There were approximately 40 '35 and older cars, pick-ups, tow trucks, semis and busses there. Only four were Chevys of any kind, and two of those were '34 sedans owned by Universal as stunt cars. They were dressed as police cars. One had completely modern running gear and the other was fairly gutted inside.

The "company cars" were almost criminal. The pair of '34s were due to be "run off the road" by John Dillinger, and one had pyro attached to the front bumper. I understand that sequence has been cut, but who's to know?

There was a beautiful big beast of a Nash that was supposed to be rolled. It still had a perfect interior in and all its chrome. You'd think they could just pull the chrome and paint silver trim pieces, not to mention gut the interior. But no. In fact, the car didn't even have a roll bar, because the director was concerned that it would be visible. I wouldn't want to be THAT driver.

We spent two days filming driving down half a block and turning right. Then the director thought it would be cool if the "hero car" could skid as it went around the corner. He'd been told that the wire wheels would never stand up to the strain … the car had camera and crew rigs hanging all over it. In fact, the car builders had to order 100 custom Artillery style rims because of the strain on the wheels, but the director didn't want to use them. So, he decided to test this skidding-across cobblestones, bootleg turn. Promptly snapped both rear wheels. At least THOSE were custom reproductions.

There is no shortage of money on this production. I was talking to one of the props guys, and they spent more than $10,000 on license plates for our cars. No, we did not get to keep them.

We've been told that we may be asked back for another location, but at this point it's all speculation.

Meanwhile we'll continue to work on the gas tank. I'd like to take a look at the starter and begin to restore the interior as well.

Anyone have any comments about Hampton Coach? I spoke to one guy who raved about them and another who ranted.

Hampton Coach is the only supplier of original looking ready to install interiors. I would say their biggest falt is the price, but you get what you pay for.
Were you in Columbus? There were a few quick shots from there on the news but didn't see any Chevrolets.
Fords had poor heaters. The hot water heaters never gave much heat in a Ford, yet in hot weather the engines would overheat. In the mid '30's and up most owners/dealers installed a South Wind GAS heater in the Fords. They gave good heat and fast.

You could do a "search" on Hampton Coach and find many posts about the subject. From what I remember reading in here it seems most fellows who commented thought the product was good but the installation directions left quite a bit to be desired.

Personally, I don't have any experience with HC. All I know is what I recall reading in here....

Bill.

I had good success with the Hampton kit. I had purchased it and then stored it for several years. As mentioned earlier the instructions were vague at best. I was able to have them fax me an updated set of instructions that weren't too much better. If you take your time and fit things up right it all goes together pretty well. I found the most difficult part to be fitting the seat buttons and blind stitching the seat back. I'd much rather have a wrench in my hand than a needle!