VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 New to the forums - My first Chevy

Hi everyone!

I came across the VCCA forums while doing a search for info on my new (old!) truck. After reading through several threads (Wonderful information), I decided to create an account.

My first vehicle purchase was this last week, and I bought a 1928 Capitol. She was a barn find, having been last registered in the state of Minnesota back in '63. Apparently an old farmer owned her for most of his life.

The truck once had "Pioneer Lumber and Elevator Company" panted on the sides. You can still see "Hopkins" painted underneath. Having been raised in northwest Missouri, I knew exactly where this truck spent its early years, and with whom (the Pioneer Lumber CO is still in business to this day!)

I have yet to clean off the engine and get the engine number, but the vehicle tag gives the serial number "21LP 5341"




After cleaning the starter and relubricating everything, draining and refilling the fuel tank, replacing the battery, and giving her several oil changes to flush out the old oil (Oy.. the stuff came out looking like split pea soup! ), she started right up. I was able to back her off the trailer and into the driveway!

This is my first ever vehicle restoration, and I figure it'll be a good 2 years for me to fully restore her, and do it right.. She's certainly going to be an adventure!

So, any VCCA chapters in or around the state of Iowa, or any members near?

-Aaron

Welcome to the forums Aaron, thats a great looking 28.
I think you're right to join the VCCA. I've only been a member for a short time, but have been amazed with how forthcomming folks are on this site, and how willing they are to help.
good luck with your restoration.
-Chris.

Hi Aaron,

Welcome to our forum. I think you will find that we are a friendly bunch.

Some advice right up front. Purchase copies (reprints) of the Owners Manual, a parts book that covers through 1928, the complete set of Chevrolet Service News for 1927,1928, and 1929. You will use these items regularly.

You refer to the truck as a 1928 Capital. Where did you get that information? (1927 is Capital and 1928 is National).

21LP 5341 This data tells us that:
21 = Assembled at the Janesville plant
LP = 1 ton truck
5341 = early October and was the 4,341 truck assembled. (Numbers started with 1000).

When you get it cleaned up find the numbers on the head and block. Also tell us how many exhaust ports on the head 1 or 2.

We can then go on from there.

Hi Aaron, (again)

You didn't tell us where you are located, but there is a VCCA region in Cedar Rapids and Burlington. If you are anywhere close to one of those areas let me know and I will give you the contact information.

This brings up another point. I assume you are not a member of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America (VCCA). It is highly recommended that you join that organization. I can provide information on how to join and the benefits you would receive.

Any other questions, bring them on.

Dear Ray and Chris,

Thank you very much for the help and kind words.

I would love to get the info for joining. I live in Des Moines, and CR is a little over 2 hours away from me. I'll be moving to Iowa City in August, so that will bring me a lot closer.

The serial tag on the truck shows that she is a Capitol. Here's a pic of the tag that is located on the bottom of the wood bench, passenger side:



The engine serial number is as follows:

348532
(Bowtie) 16
H 218


I'm very much a n00b (or fresh fish, if you will), so expect some of the pretty basic questions.. I have the reproduction manual for the 1928 National (AB), and right off I found out my reverse is opposite of the diagram in the book. Boy, she's interesting, to learn to drive stick on.

I was also loaned a copy of Dykes Encyclopedia (11th Edition, 1920) from a neighbor, and have been reading up on that.

For right now, I'm trying to come up with the best substitutes for the various oils. The transmission oil needs to be drained and refilled, and the manual calls for 600W? I also need to do the same for the axle. On top of all that, no one makes s.a.e. 20.. I can get 10 or 30. Someone told me that a synthetic 10w30 would be my best bet. Any suggestions? :confused:

Thank you very much for the help guys!

-Aaron

Hi again,

Important items first. Follow this link to print out an application form: APPLICATION FORM

The vehicle should have a steel shell. Does the shell have a sharp dip at the top?

Your engine # says: Aug 21 1928 as the casting date.

For the transmission and rear end I would use 85W-140. For the engine use 10-W-30. Does not need to be synthetic.

Fun things to do. Remove the exhaust manifold, check the surface on the head where it was bolted, you should find numbers stamped into the metal, this number should be the same number that is stamped on the block. If all this checks out it indicates that the head and block are the same ones that left the factory as a pair.

What numbers are on your title, and in what space on the title?

Keep them coming.

The '28 trucks used the Capital model name same as 1927. Don't know why they did not use National as that was the model name for '28 passenger. Guess it was because the steel radiator shell on the 1 ton was the same as a '27 truck and same design as the aluminum shell used on passenger. The LP was a late '28 truck with a four-speed transmission and front brakes. The four-speed was only used in the 1 ton truck so does not match the shift for the three-speed in the repair manual.

Chipper,

A 4-speed! Thank you! This would explain the difference in shifting layout between this one and what is described in the national manual.

Now comes the fun question.. how exactly is it laid out? I noticed that to get it in reverse, I have to depress the shifting trigger and pull it towards me and down, but if I forget to pull the trigger it tries to go forward (and stalls out)

Boy.. I certainly picked an interesting vehicle, to learn how to drive stick on.

EDIT: Erp.. I answered my own question. I'm guessing reverse shares the same slot as second.

-Aaron

Actually the same slot is used for reverse and first. Technically the gears are Low (in the Reverse position for a three speed) then first through third are in the same positions as a three speed. The lever and rod has a reverse lock-out so you don't try to put it in low and actually hit reverse.

Well, I took the exhaust manifold off today and found the same numbers. Looks like she is original.

I also drained the radiator and took off the thermostat housing. I saw that the fluid was drained out of the housing when I removed the hose and figured she had a broken thermostat.

Well... not exactly broken. The dang thing isn't even there. Worse, it's missing the retainer plate and the two bolts that hold it in place!

So, anyone know where I can find a retainer plate? :confused:

-Aaron

The two screws are 1/2 long 1/4X20.

The holder is available from Gary Wallace. chev4cyl@charter.net

Ray,

Thank you very much!

-Aaron

Well.. I've had some really good success so far..

Got a new thermostat and retainer plate from Gary, and I managed to get the radiator cowl repainted. Had everything installed, and had driven it down the street a couple of times this last week.

Then disaster.. The engine seized up on me, and won't turn one bit.

I've taken out the spark plugs and tried squirting a little wd-40 down in each cylinder, and so far that's had no effect. I don't have a crank for it, so it's really hard for me to turn it manually, but this isn't budging one bit.

I've taken off the exhaust manifold and removed the two rod covers, and none of the rods appear bent. I have yet to drain the oil and drop the pan and see if there's anything going on underneath.

Any suggestions as to what I should try next?

-Aaron

First I suggest a couple of squirts of automatic transmission fluid into each cylinder. It is a much better lubricant than WD-40. So are penetrating oils like PB Blaster. After letting it soak for several hours to several days, I would put it in high gear and rock it back and forth to see if you can get to move the crank. Use only moderate force as the crankshaft can be bent by excessive force.

You can also remove the bottom part of the bell housing and use a special tool that attaches to the ring gear teeth. Without the tool you can use a heavy screwdriver.

When push goes to shove, it may be necessary to open it up and check the cylinder walls. You may be lucky to be able to remove one or more rod caps. Depending on what you see from the bottom will determine your next step.

Did you have any oil pressure before the disaster?

Every once in awhile my starter will jam up on the flywheel. This happens of course while I'm starting the car. Hercules couldn't turn that engine then. It's a quick fix. I simply loosen the starter a little and it frees up. I'm good to go for a a few hundred miles more.

You didn't say when it froze up but if it froze up when starting it, try loosening the starter.

Well.. I dropped the pan, and everything inside looks alright. The cylinder walls are shiny, and there was plenty of oil in the pan when I started. The oil pump filter was slightly clogged, and I was getting a reading of 5 to 10 on the oil pressure gauge when idling. I'm not certain what the normal pressure reading would be when idling or driving. I did clean the filter.

rbl2: I did try loosening the starter, and that did no good. I've tried turning the crank with a large screwdriver, and it won't budge. I'm gonna try some PB Blaster in the cylinders tonight and see if that doesn't help it in the morning.

I'll see if I can't get some pictures of the engine tomorrow as well.

-Aaron

EDIT: Got her free! Thank you Chipper! Putting her in high and rocking her back and fourth worked.

Doesn't it make you feel tingly all over when something is fixed?

Yep!

Even moreso when it's something that is 80 years old, and hadn't been driven in over 45 years..

I'm lovin it! :grin:


Oh, I cleaned the oil pump filter and have that installed. I'm gonna take the oil pan to a car wash, hose it with some degreaser, and clean it up really good. I'm glad I ordered those gaskets in advance from the filling station, when I did.


-Aaron

Sure glad the rocking got it loosened up. I have tried the large screw driver, crowbar and other larger levers to turn over engines many times. Still do it but we all need to be careful as we can put so much torque on the crank that it is bent. Then the problems get worse. Another possible problem with the levers is that you are only turning one direction. With the rocking you alternate directions which if you can get any movement can release what is causing the problem or get more momentum to get past the sticking point.

Hi,

Have you decided what caused the engine to seize? Was it lack of oil, overheating or what?

I'm not sure exactly. She froze right on TDC, by the looks of the crankshaft. When I did free her, there was a "snap" sound, that wasn't very loud.. and sounded like one of the pistons was stuck, and it freed itself. This happened when I was pulling on the drive belt a little, after rocking her, and it did not take much pulling at all after I had rocked her back and fourth.

She had oil pressure before, and I don't think it was overheating. It froze when I tried cranking her. She turned over, but stalled as I closed the choke (It's still quite cold out here). That's when she was siezed up. She had not been running more than 3 or 4 seconds when it happened.


On an unrelated note to this, I've also found a problem with the advancement not moving on the distributer, and I can't get it to move at all unless I loosen that bolt that tightens the lever right under the distributer. I'm not sure if it's supposed to move the distributer, and I can't get the distributer to move at all, and I'm unsure how to take it off so I can clean it. It's so caked in old oil that it's no wonder it doesn't want to move. I've cleaned as much of it off as I can, but I don't know what else I have to loosen to remove it.


-Aaron

((edit: I did find AntiqueMechanic's post on the distributer |School is in Session|, and I'm reading up on how to install it))

Well, I figured I'd post and give everyone an update.

I was finally able to get the distributor free. It took the removal of years of caked on grease and hosing it down with PB Blaster. A light tap with a hammer and a screwdriver and it now moves freely. I don't have a timing light so I can't get the timing perfect per AntiqueMechanic's instructions (in the School is in Session thread), but I have it so that she runs a lot better and doesn't gallop or misfire.

I have had her on the road, and she seems to pick up speed a lot easier now. She rattles way too much for my taste, and even though the wood is all in pretty decent shape, there's still rot and wear. A full frame-up restoration is sorely needed. At least I have all the wood and can use it all as patterns.

I noticed too that there is oil leaking from around the spark plug on the third cylinder. Not surprising, given her age and lack of upkeep. It only shows the necessity for a complete rebuild. Unfortunately Old Man Winter hit us pretty hard up here again, so I have her in the garage. When spring hits though, ohh boy!

Overall, I am really glad I bought her. It still amazes me that I have something that is 80 years old sitting in my garage, and with a little tinkering I've woken her up from 45 years of sleep. I've always been a history nut, can you tell?


So here's my next question. Is there any real good place to get patterns for wooden truck beds for the 1928 Capitols? I haven't found any sources online.

Thanks!

-Aaron