VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION New User Forum Restoration versus repair ???

Restoration versus Repair???

I have been a member of VCCA and participated in this community since March 2005 and I have a question about what defines a "repair" and what defines a "restoration"? Since this question is not specific to any particular forum, I assume it should be posted here.

I am nearing the end (I hope) of an ongoing process of "restoring" a non-road worthy 1932 Landau Phaeton to roadworthy status having dismantled the car right down to it's simplest nut and bolt. This process far exceeds what I would define as a "repair".

Yet, the upholstery on the front bench seat of my '54 Two-Ten is thread bare and in need of attention so that the inner padding is not visible to the occupant.

So what is the definition of a simple a repair versus a restoration?

:vcca:

The simplist description of the two is: Repair is to return to proper function. Restoration is to return to its original as manufactured condition.

Also, repair is usually affordable.....a complete "frame off" restoration usually costs more than the car is worth.

:) :grin:

So, in the case of the upholstery "repair", I'd be bringing the bench cushion back to proper function by not having the under padding exposed to view or is it considered a "restoration"?

Does the the use of NOS or after-market stock have any bearing on this matter?

(I don't mean to mince words but I have a car that I do not wish to "restore" but I do wish to maintain and remain serviceable.)

(After-thought: a repair could be to install seat covers?)

Sounds like you answered your own question.

:) :grin:

Or put on a patch or non-original material or cover with a blanket or ???? Restore has only one option - the way it was done originally.

Right on Chipper, I always see locals that get an old car and they want to "Fix-it-up" and get it so it can be driven for fun.
That isn't what a Restoration is. VCCA Restoration has a meaning of "Restore to Original condition" If you don't have to restore a car due to it's being kept in pristine condition we call those cars "Original, not restored"

A Chevrolet that I think is a good tour car and looks nice and runs nice to me may look like it "Needs to be Restored" by others. That is why there are 100 point cars and 999 point cars, I doubt that there would ever be a 1000 point car.

Lets see if I understand this correctly: on this nice tour car, if I restore a thread-bare seat cushion because of normal wear and tear (pardon the pun) to original condition to keep it looking nice, then the car is considered to be "original"; not restored?

Can I look at it the same as replacing a worn set of tires; the car is still original even though the rubber is new?

The car oould still be considered original including the interior if you repair the lower part of the front seat only.
Paint would be considered original if two fenders were painted.
You would say the paint is all original except for the front fenders as an example.
My 1950 exterior is original but some areas have been repainted. The interior is original and nothing has been replaced.
Under the hood is not original because the previous owner painted the engine and side splash pans.
The chassis is not original as much has been repainted.
The above are the guide lines for the Preservation of Original Chevrolet Feature certification class.(Bill Dirnberger, one of the P.O's brought that to the VCCA from the ACCA I belive)
Its difficult to find a car over 50 years old that has had nothing done to it. Sooner or later something has happened to some parts. It will be difficult to find a 1954 more original than yours and if you did you would not want to use it for a tour car.
It will be difficult to find the correct material for the seat. The 1954 210 seat material always stained and looked ratty after a few years. I would guess your has become rotted and is splitting. If it were mine I would consider covering the seat with a sheet to hide the sins and prevent more problems. On my '50 I keep the seats front and back covered, they are not worn but because we us it for so much touring I feel safer. When all that old material gets old it can easily split or tear.

Now I am beginning to understand.

I will PM to discuss further.

:vcca:

We could go to extremes as to what knocks out a car from being a 100% original car. Does it have the original air in the original tires? does it have the original battery? Is all of the chrome original, is the floor and trunk mats in original unused condition, have repairs been done to the wireing? are the headlight bulbs original, has the odometer been repaired, rolled back or rolled over? etc., etc. Really does it make that much difference in the value of the car?

To some owners it may, and potential buyers-collectors.
Is a 100% original car as valuable as a complete down to the bolts, basecoat-clear coat $15,000 paint job car restored with all NOS parts?
Why am I even discussing that here? Anyone know? DUUUH!

Mr. Mack,

I agree, this whole notion of "original", "restored" and "repaired" can be taken to extremes. The point of it all is I didn't not want to compromise a fine specimen because of an ill conceived repair decision I made because my shear ignorance.

Questions are wise, unfortunate error in judgment may be permanent.

(I am really not sure what forum to have this discussion in?)

Well, to maybe be of some help, This site should be the place to ask specific questions, about a specific item or planned restoration item. I am sure you will get more than one answer, so you should decide which one of the respondants to go with. Some of the answers will be entirely void of consideration of prices, others will suggest a more economical way. I think that is how it should be, there are more than one ways to do most restorations.

I go by the "Show Room Rule". If it existed at the time and looks the way it would have looked in a dealer show room at the time the car was produced, then it is restored. If it was only repaired as needed, nothing but wear items replaced, then it is original.

The problem with original is that condition could be horrid. With restored you are attempting to achieve a "look". For tires they just have to be the same type and look, not the same ones to be restored. They can be radial but only if radial was offered on new cars at the time.

If you replace the battery with one that looks like the original battery that came with the car, it's restored, otherwise it's repaired.

It would seem very difficult to have anything on the car original during a complete restoration. By definition you would put all new "show room" original materials on everything, from paint to fabric to glass to gaskets. If it is original then it can't be restored. If you simply clean it up, it is not restored, just original.

Brian

Bravo!

:vcca: