VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1938 W1 Carb Rebuilding

So while I'm waiting for parts to arrive for my engine rebuild, I thought I would gather up the carb cores I've collected and get them to a rebuilder. I have to ship regardless, so I'd rather ship to someone in the US with lots of experience with these as it sounds like lots of these were messed with over the years...

I've searched this forum and a couple members have come up in some older posts (2+ years old) as well there are some rebuilders advertising in the G&D.

Who is good at rebuilding these old W1's?

Thanks

All of those dudes that advertise in the G&D.

:) :)

I have not sampled the work of all of the advertisers myself, only two. I have reports from others that some of the generalists charge more and might not do the best work. Some have had to send the carbs to another builder to get them to work correctly. It might have been Murphy working as occasionally something will go wrong even with the best people. As long as the rebuilder will stand behind their work it should be ok to send them out.

Tim, did you check out "The Carb Doctor" http://www.carburetor.ca/ He has all the stuff and I found it easy to rebuild.
Mike

Thanks all!

I'll have to look into the carb doctor being so close. I have a couple carbs that are NOS so I may just kit them for now and see what happens. I'm almost 4000 feet above sea level so may run a bit rich but we'll see.

I have received several PM's indicating that Junk Yard Dog and Chipper do good work so I wanted to throw that out in this post.

I now need to identify the correct carb. My GM Canada repair manual that incorrectly stated I should have an automatic choke, does provide the same model carb as my 2 different revision Canadian parts manuals so I have a documented 3 way consensus on this.

All three manuals say I should have a Carter 406S - part # 1791917. This looks like a unique Canadian part# as all other years older and newer than mine, have real Chevrolet numbers that match up with the US Chevrolet Parts books that I have.

My car is a 1938 Canadian Pontiac 2 door Business Coupe Model 2517 Special series, with the Chev 216. It is nearly 100% Chevrolet.

Does the 406S Carter carb mean anything to anyone or is it a Canadian mutant I'll never find??

I have checked several of my references and do not find a Carter 406S listed. It might be a Canadian number. Since the number falls in an area that have several climate controlled carburetors it may be the one with the heat activated choke. If someone has a Canadian Carter Spec. Book or Chevrolet parts book then we might be able to pin it down.

I will send you a PM on the Carb Doctor.

Hmmm. I was afraid of the automatic choke coming up again. I've got another post on it. My owners manual says manual choke for my model. My 2 Canadian parts manuals show choke rod/cable assemblies for my car and a "decorative knob" for the choke pull. 1939 and 1940 models list the automatic choke heating tube for these models but not the 1938. My Canadian service manual says it's an automatic choke. All 3 books show it to use the 406s though. The car actually came with a 50's Rochester style carb on it. The 2 spare engines I have also have the same 50's Rochester carbs!

My car is only one of 270 built so there is a very good chance of there being errors in the manuals and being a small production quantity there may have been some undocumented parts changes that happened right on the assembly line.

My choke pull and knob look like OEM 1938 Chevrolet. I also have no provision on the exhaust manifold for the choke tube to connect. I also hate automatic chokes so this might strongly influence my choice of carbs, but I would like it as authentic as I can determine.

Does anyone have a Canadian Carter Spec Book or Canadian Chev parts book that might show Carter 406s info?

I checked all my Carter manuals and found no reference to a "406S" Carter carb.

I then checked my Hollander's Interchange manual (16th edit - 1928-1948) and found a Carter "400S" which is listed as original equipment for '37-'38 Pontiac 8 cyl. It interchanges with Carter #433S which was original equipment for '39 Pontiac 8 cyl. I'm wondering if the literature you got your number from was a misprint and 406S should have been 400S ??

It's possibly a mis-print. It's in 3 different manuals printed over a 20 year span but if no one ever complained, the error could have been copied forward over the years.

The part number in the parts manual looks Canadian so it may have been a limited volume carb unique to Canada. Even my engine block casting number was uniquely Canadian, and since most documentation out there is US, the casting # appeared to not exist until David Hayward made some sense out of the casting, dates and serial# and determined it to be undocumented but legitimate from a secondary foundary.

There are also 5 different air cleaners listed in my Canadian parts manual for the same car (3 oil, 2 dry), so they may have bolted on whatever was available for a carb at the time.

I'm quite certain mine should be a manual choke so I might have to look at a "best match"...unless some other info turns up...

If the standard metering rod causes the engine to run rich at 4000 ft, there is a one step lean metering rod available. And it's not necessary to take the carb apart to change it....

My 1937 US Pontiac parts book shows a Carter W-1 carb. with an aotomatic choke. Looks just like a Chevrolet W-1 except for the auto. choke. This version was used on other makes also.I assume that this is what you have.
I believe that I have a used 1938 W-1 if intrested.....with the choke and throttle cable bracket.

Thanks.

This car is certainly an oddball. I've got US Pontiac manuals, US Chevrolet manuals and a couple revisions of the Canadian Pontiac parts manuals to help me sort it out.

Other than a few Pontiac cosmetics, it's a Chevrolet to the core. The car shares little but the name with the US Pontiacs. Tiny's car is it's twin with a different grill and running boards.

I'm not sure what to think at this point. I've got some holidays coming up so I'll gather my carbs and see what I've got. I want to get something as close to original as possible and knowing Canadian Pontiacs were "cost sensitive" and mine was the base model coupe, I'm 99% certain it should be a manual choke.

Were there any carbs of the era that could be connected as either an automatic or a manual choke? Just wondering if they may have used an auto-choke carb but used a choke cable on the "lower" priced cars...

I may already have a correct Chev 38 W1. Other than the rows of patent numbers and lack of the vent tube above the venturi, how can I determine what is correct for a 38?

Thanks

If you send me your email address I can send pictures from the Engineering manuals-The 1938 is the first year to have a one piece choke plate. The 1939 had minor choke linkage changes. The 1939-40 are the same and would work OK on a 1938.
The automatic choke carb. would need major changes to be converted to manual....also requires a choke heat stove to be mounted on the exhaust manifold.

Tim, I'm pretty sure your car is supposed to have the 406s carb -it's in the 38' shop manual and the 39' shop manual. It looks like the 406s was exclusive to Canada and was also used on the 39' Chieftan model 25. My US pontiac literature doesn't show a 406s used in any years. I had one of these at one time... I have attached a link to the Carter datasheet - look at 1938 Pontiac Special & DeLuxe 1939 Chieftain 2500 Series at
http://www.old-carburetors.com/Pontiac.htm

Mike

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!

It gave me goose bumps to read 1938 Oshawa Special 6 8250001. That's my car. Mine was 2nd last off the line in Oshawa in 1938.

Mike, I forgot to bug you seeing as you have the next best thing - a 1939 Version of a Canadian Pontiac/Chev Mutant!

So my owners manual must be wrong indicating I have a manual choke? I went out to my garage and found a rebuilt W1 carb in a Carter box - 1933 Canadian patents on the auto choke cover.

This carb has single piece choke plate, no vent tube above venturi. So, how can I tell if this is the correct or close carb? (email=timbay1@hotmail.comxxx)-ignore obvious extra characters.

In my pile of parts (the previous owner stripped every Canadian Pontiac he could find over 40 years), I found a 216 exhaust manifold with a 4" long, 3/4" diameter "pipe" sticking out from around exhaust port 4/5. It is a wide open connection to the exhaust. There was a homemade blocking plate on it. It has a 2 bolt flange. I'm excited.

So Mike can you provide a photo of the 216 (or 224) showing the heat tube connections for an autochoke? I think it would help a lot of people realize I'm not making up a story about a mostly Chevrolet car with some Pontiac detailing.

My father retired from GM Canada so I'm presently trying to convice him to show up at the Vintage Department in Oshawa with a bottle to see what they "really" know about the car...now that I'm down to a few specific questions.

Thanks all! This site is absolutely amazing!