VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 1935 Standard Cooling System

Bought a '35 Standard a few weeks ago from a relative and I'm going through it system by system to make it road worthy. It's a complete car with all original drivetrain/chassis/body. I flushed the radiator out and installed an aftermarket temp gauge. When I fired up the engine and let it get warm, the temp gauge didn't move past its lowest indication of 130 degrees F. The engine felt warm and I could feel the fan pulling heat from the radiator, but I continued to let it run at idle and the temp gauge never budged. I tested the bulb in some boiling water and it read correctly. The other thing I noticed was the heater core never got warm and the heater hoses weren't hot to the touch (I check the heater hoses for shut-off valves and there were none).

So here are my questions..does the 207 have a thermostat? Is what I'm seeing normal in 45 degree ambient temps? Thanks

Yvehc5391
There should be a thermostat I would be checking that it is working properly. If there is no taps in the heater hoses they should have been warm as well.
Tony

If the air temperature is cold the coolant will not heat up if the car does not have a thermostat.The thermostat was used from 1934 right up int the 1980's and is easy to come by.I run a 160 degree as car is not driven it the cold winter weather,,,,either your thermostat is stuck open or you don't have one installed in the car.
Some times the cars overheat and the owners remove the thermostat in the summer thinking that it will run cooler without one.

Well, I'll have to admit that it is a mental turnaround in an owner encountering his older Chevy having an an engine temperature problem that involves it running too cool instead of overheating. A lot of people would want your type of problem. The answers provided by Tony and Chevgene are right on.

Thanks for the feedback - I'll look for a thermostat. The only reason I was questioning if a '35 came with one, is I looked at the manual and it didn't indicate one being installed from the factory. You can see the manual at:

http://www.old-carburetors.com/1935-Chevy/122.htm

Thanks again.

Although a thermostat was not installed at the factory, the information on page 130 of the manual you attached confirms Chevrolet's recommendation to install one in the water outlet connection where a colder climate is encountered.

"...look with my eyes, not with my mouth..." Thanks for pointing that out.

Wait till next summer and its 90 degrees....your question will be why does my car overheat after idling for 15 minutes. :)

Wanted to follow up on my original post. When I installed the temp bulb for the new temp gauge in the top of the head, it bottomed out (due to over tightening), broke, and released the ether. It's a little embarrassing, but I thought others may learn from my novice mistake. Also found the nipples on the water pump for the heater core hoses were completely clogged. You were right - I fought an overheating problem all summer.

I have a '35 Std coupe that I've owned for 32 years. I have fought heating up on hot days for years. I have installed a
NOS original water pump,made and installed a water pump baffle plate and a high efficiency radiator core. I have finally won the battle this year and here is what I've done. Instead of a
thermostat I made a restrictor plate with a 49/64th hole. I found
the heat riser stuck in the exh manifold and repaired that. The
last thing I did was to dilute the permanent anti-freeze mixture
to about 70% water. I have since driven on the interstate, up hills, and idled in traffic in 90+degrees and the temp stays in
the180 range. It will rise a little in traffic, but comes right
back down when car speed increases air flow through radiator.I
am a retired professional mechanic and I hope this helps some-
one with a similar problem.

Phil,
I have owned my 35 Standard Coupe for 34 years. My experience has been similar to yours. Tell me more about your radiator core.
My car will not start when it is hot, and of course, it's always hot. We drove it from Missouri to Colorado Springs in 1976 for the 15th Anniversary meet of VCCA. We had to park on a hill every time we turned it off. I had a starter built from all NOS parts and it made no difference. I have had two different '35 engines in the car and they both acted the same.
I finally gave up and just leave it at home. I love the car but hate the hassell of taking it out.
Mike

I removed my radiator and sent it out to a radiator shop I have
done business with for several years. They proceeded to replace
the original core with a 'high efficiency' Core. They said that
is what they do for a lot of hot rodders when they install a small block V/8 and need additional cooling. I suggest you remove
the water pump and see if there is a baffle present. They are
often missing due to corrosion or freeze damage. Check your spark
timing. The other common problem with hard starting hot is the
use of 12volt cables with a 6 volt system. The 6 volt cables
are twice as thick and offer less resistance. Another trick I
have used is to run an additional ground cable from where the
original ground is secured to the frame to the engine block or
a transmission bolt. Make sure there is not a lot of paint under
the ground cable and always use a lock washer to insure a good
contact. If you are still in trouble, let me know and I'll try
to help. Phil (Flip)

Somethimg I neglected to mention in my previous reply was that
more than likely when you solve the heating problem you will
probably solve the hot restart problem as well. Heat increases
electrical resistance causing the starter to draw more current and the consequent voltage drop will cause insufficient voltage
to be availible for good ignition. Also, pistons and other parts
expand with heat and make the engine harder to crank. Another
benefit of getting my Chevy to rub cooler was no longer having
the carburetor bleed on a hot shutdown which left a gasoline
stain on the intake manifold. I strongly recommend attacking the
heating problem first.

Phil,
Thanks for the checklist. I have a baffle behind my water pump, I made it and installed it myself. My battery cables are the good heavy ones and my ground cable goes directly to a bolt on the transmission top. My timing should be correct
I think I have an extra radiator around somewhere, maybe I'll drop by my local radiator shop and ask about the high efficiency core. There is also a radiator shop which specializes in hot rod work that is not too far away. I might give them a call.

Mike

yvehc5391:
You stated in the initial post that everything is original. That probably means you also have the original rust and crud built up in the block and head. My '35 Master (same engine as Standard) had similar problems that I had tried to fix for years (new thermostats, radiator flushes, etc.) The problem was finally resolved by removing the engine and taking the head off and cleaning out all the "clogged artery" water passages with my pressure washer. We got lots of nuggets and semi-solid rusty goo flushed out. I was fortunate to get a NOS radiator and now she runs as cool as the other side of the pillow! She runs just a little shy of an indicated 180 and rarely goes a little higher while stopped and idling.

Coach

My engine was out for a rebuild a few years back and the problem has been with me since. I actually had the same problems with an engine I was using temporarily while my original was being worked on. I don't think clogged passages are a problem but I am not disregarding any suggestion at this time. My radiator flowed OK when it was last checked.
I believe the master series cars had a larger capacity radiator than the standards.
Mike

Flow testing at most radiator shops is an inexact procedure. They use a water hose and look at the amount of water coming out of the outlet or neck (depending on forward or back flow). If they could actually measure the flow rate in gallons per minute with a calibrated device and very low pressure differential the compare with the actual flow of an immaculately clean radiator you might have an indication of the amount of blockage.

Even checking the surface temperature of the core can be misleading. Heat transfer within the metal can lead one to assume that more if the core is functioning than actually is the case. A better indiction might be a calculation of BTUs removed by the radiator. If you know the flow rate and ambient temperature of air, the coolant flow rate and temperature drop across the radiator you can calculate the amount of cooling. Knowing the hp of the engine or amount of fuel burned you can calculate the total BTUs generated in the engine. Using the typical 1/3 going to power the vehicle, 1/3 lost through the exhaust system and direct transfer to air and the remaining 1/3 removed by the cooling system you can get a reasonable estimate of the BTUs that need to be removed by the radiator. We used those measurements and calculations in our coolant research. That way we could determine the efficiency of coolant mixtures. On second thought why not just change the radiator core it is harder on the pocketbook but easier on the brain.

If evrything is OK the engine will turn over hot and should not overheat.
My '34 Master always turned over fast when hot unless you advanced the timing way to far. Usually ran 8 to 10 deg advanced with no problem. I used a 670 cranking amp battery,
With a 160 thermo the gauge would run read around 170- in 70 deg weather, 180 in 80 deg and about 190 in 90 deg...and never boiled over.
It did have aluminum pistons.

Mike:
You're right about the cooling capacities; for '35 the Master holds 11 quarts and the Standard holds 10.
Not to be argumentative, but my engine was also 'rebuilt' by a machine shop. I bought it about 20 years ago from a hot-rodder who had no use for it. I concluded that the machining was done well, but they didn't do a good job of cleaning. Last year I removed the head and the core plugs from the block and we were amazed at the amount of junk that flushed out of my engine. I pulled the oil pan and cleaned out more oil/carbon sludge, so this pretty well confirmed the shop did little if any cleaning.
My local radiator shop cleaned out my original radiator as best they could and they have a flow test bench. I don't know how accurate it may be, but I watched the guy test it about 15 to 16 gpm, and his experience told him these type of cores should probably be closer to 20-22 gpm, but this was just his assumption based on some years of experience. So, with some restrictions I put it back together and she ran cooler while underway but would quickly heat up to 200 degrees or more while idling. Only the NOS radiator (which now leaks by the way) cured the overheating problem. I'll pull the NOS radiator later this year for repair and maybe have the shop flow test both radiators to see how they compare.

Coach

I'm not sure if this link will work. Three photos of the rust and crud I found in my 'rebuilt' engine.

http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=174547150/a=42527749/t_=42527749

I had all the same things on the '36. I finaly put water in it and then chocked an air hose in it and blew out water and rust. Then reversed the air after refilling water. Worked it the other way. I still had some over heating until I adjusted the octaine selector at the distributor. Make sure the octaine selector is not loose. If it is your timing will be off even after you reset it. I have had it work loose on the road while driving.