VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Go to 12 (volts) or keep it 6 (volts)

Planning in working sometime in November.

Should I upgrade the electrical to 12 volts or keep it 6 volts?

Keep'er Six Volts, Man!

Yep, 6 Volts is the right way to go. When everything is set up properly, there is no reason to do all the work to go to 12, which creates its own new set of problems.

Wingnut,

I have NEVER seen a 12 volt conversion that 'worked out' as the guy anticipated. Opens up a can of worms best left closed!

MUCH better to work out whatever hassles you might be having with the original 6 volt system.

Just my two cents....

Bill.

Right now as far as electrical goes, I only have is the starter and a battery cable so the hassle shall be setting up the system from scratch. No lights, wires, or switches.

By asking the question I suspected you were fishing for verification of your desire to switch to 12V. Your reply to the two postings reinforces that impression. Therefore, I suggest that you do what you want to do. Despite over 90 years of successfully using 6 volt systems many "mechanics" and other "experts" recommend 12 volt systems. Many also recommend upgrading other systems to get better performance and convenience. That way the owner will not have to suffer with poor performance and unreliable antiquated systems. I personally prefer to keep a bit of history and experience of our ancestors. You are the owner so can do what you want.

Well said Chipper.

But the point remains (at least for me), I've got a GREAT '54 Sport Coupe with a six volt system that provides me with great service. And has for 30 years.

Interestingly enough, I just saw the guy yesterday at a local Hooter's cruise-in that I bought the car from. The first thing he wanted to know was if I still had 'his car' after 30 and half years.

Yep. Sure do.... Still totally stock/original and working just fine!!!!

Bill.

Hey Wingnut,

I've got a VERY NICE 37 Chev many-doors sedan that HAS been converted to 12 volt.

BUT, it's also been 'converted' to Nova sub-frame, 350 4 bolt main engine, TH-400, power steering, power front disc/rear drum brakes, Tilt wheel, power windows, F*ord nine inch and so on and so on.

That's when I'd convert to 12 volt. If you're planning on "serious upgrades" like that, have it. Go for 12 volt.

Otherwise, keep it (make it) a six volt system.

Again, just my two cents.....

Bill.

I have not made any choices yet.

The question is economics which shall cost more in the setting it up.

How much do 6 volts bulbs cost over 12 volts bulbs?

I also need to see what the generator and the starter condition is.

The cost is one consideration, If you are starting out with a 100% stock pre 55 Chevrolet With a starter and generator replacement the other 6 volt items aren't as expensive as you may think. I found a 42 piece 6 volt bulb set on eBay that wasn't too expensive. The Filling Station and other vendors have replacement 6 volt sealed beam headlight bulbs, and any other 6 volt replacement parts. There are vendors and technicians on this site that will rebuild your AM radio back to original condition.

I don't know of anything of a 6 volt origin that someone here on the site can't either restore or replace or point you in the right direction.

However if you are thinking about Air Conditioning the car and replaceing the original engine with a 55 or later 235 or 261 or 250 - 292 straight six engines a 12 volt conversion is needed. The post 54 engines require a starter that has a different starter drive gear (the post 55 flywheel is different) and I haven't found any 6 volt compressor clutch that works. Another point is the amperage needed to pull an A/C and any high output electrical devices you may want to add. NCA had a conversion kit to convert from 6 volt to 12 volt for $350 which included a single wire 12 volt alternator, and light bulbs headlights with a convertor for the gauges. The people that I have talked to haven't changed the 6 volt starter (it is rather diffucult) for a pre 55 engine. They simply take the chance that the 12 volts won't burn out the 6 volt starter. There are custom made combination alternator A/C compressor brackets that allow the engine crankshaft pulley and fan belt to pull the compressor and a second belt to pull the alternator off the double pulley A/C Compressor. That way you don't have to change the crank pully and harmonic balancer out with a double crank pully. The changeover to 12 volts isn't always as simple as you may expect. I remember my brother's 53 that had a 265 V/8 and a 12 volt conversion, first the gas gauge quit, then the heater blower, then the starter, and lastly someone pushed in the 6 v cigarette lighter, it popped out on the seat and burned a hole in his new seat cover.

If you intend to keep'er stock...keep'er 6 volt....

The original Delco-Remy 6 volt starter motor is built so big and heavy that it will run just fine and shall last just as long if you use it at 12 volts. Allis Chamlers uses Delco-Remy for there starters in there tractors and in there parts manual the list the same starter as 12 volt Heavy Duty / 6 volt It will run a little hotter at 12 volts than 6 volts, this is where the 10/30 rule came from: 10 second crank 30 second cool down.

Caveat: The starter motor is a series wound DC motor, which will turn the same way regardless of the polarity of the voltage you apply.

The starter is not an issue when converting 6 volt (postive or negative ground) to 12 volts system.

Not for some that are careful and do not grind it too long, however, the six volt starter will go faster on 12 volts and also burn out the armature and sling solder faster on 12 volts, which really is not a fault of the higher voltage but rather the higher wattage that the starter will pull with a 12 volt battery the solenoid is also voltage sensitive so it is an issue. The main thing is don't expect a pre-55 starter to work on a post 54 flywheel on a Chevrolet six or visa versa. The flywheels will interchange so if you mate the starter and flywheel you can make either work. I have seen a six volt starter burn out while trying to boost a six volt car with a 12 volt car being used to boost the six volt one. This is a case where the starter is being run way past the 10 second rule. 12 volt to 12 volt are where the 15 second rule came from.
What have you heard about using an 8 volt battery on a 6 volt Chevrolet? As you know many old 6 volt tractors work well with an 8 volt battery. It has been my experiance that an 8 volt battery in a six volt Chevrolet is a poor subsitute band-aid for a six volt battery and cables in good condition.

By the way what year and model Chevrolet are you working on? I may have overlooked it.

Most of you guys are way over my head on this stuff, however I will pass on some info. Recently I purchased a "41 Chevy that was a 6 volt, however had an 8 volt battery. It was also set up with a positive ground. I could not keep a charge & had trouble starting the engin.

Thanks to knowedgable guys responding to my plea for help, I changed to neg. ground, replaced 8 with a 6 volt battery, replaced my cables and my problems disappeared.

Hope this helps.

Gary,

I remember all that being discussed. Essentially that's what "we're" trying to tell Wingnut. However, he seems determined to go 12 volt. No problem with me if he does. I wouldn't do it on a bet. But the bottom line is it's his car.

Bill.

As 42bill plainly stated "It is your car Wingnut", you asked and we gave you our true feelings about this query. most of us have been there done that at one time or the other.

From your profile is the vehicle a 27 truck four cylinder? If that is so I would say 100% consensus here is keep it a 6 volt.

Sorry profile had to be corrected it is an 1928 LP Truck

On tractor using an 8 volt battery was used as a “Backyard Engineering” fix for weak ground cables or a weak starter, or worse, an engine losing compression (starter needed the extra speed to get the engine started). The 8 volt battery is a red-head step-child you can’t find 8 volts parts

Using a 6 volt generator/ regulator on an 8 volt you will be running around with a discharged 8 volt battery. A 6 volt generator output is 8 volts with a little tweaking on the regulator the output can be increase to 9.6 volts on some generators, but most don’t like to get above 9.4 volts. You need at least 7 volts (8 volts when using headlights) from your generator to maintain a 6 volt battery. You will need 9.6 volts (10.5 volts when using headlights) to properly maintain a 8 volt battery.

If you put on an 8 volt battery and you don’t tweak your regulator; you regulator not allow any output from the generator because it thinks it has a full battery.

Lead Acid battery degrade 40% faster when not maintain with a proper charge.

About positive ground; due to gasses from the battery, the positive terminal always has a tendency to collect corrosion and cause poor connection. Ford engineers thought if the applied the positive terminal of the battery to the ground connection (reversing current flow) it would reduce the terminal corrosion and the corrosion that would form would not have as much effect on reduced voltage. ...a little bit of trivia.

"Ford engineers thought if the applied the positive terminal of the battery to the ground connection (reversing current flow) it would reduce the terminal corrosion and the corrosion that would form would not have as much effect on reduced voltage. ...a little bit of trivia."

Wonder if Ford engineers still have that kind of thinking? Yes the current path is reversed in the wiring and electrical systems but has not reversed in the battery. Got 90+% right but overlooked the key part of the system.

On tractor using an 8 volt battery was used as a “Backyard Engineering” fix for weak ground cables or a weak starter, or worse, an engine losing compression (starter needed the extra speed to get the engine started). The 8 volt battery is a red-head step-child you can’t find 8 volts parts

Using a 6 volt generator/ regulator on an 8 volt you will be running around with a discharged 8 volt battery. A 6 volt generator output is 8 volts with a little tweaking on the regulator the output can be increase to 9.6 volts on some generators, but most don’t like to get above 9.4 volts. You need at least 7 volts (8 volts when using headlights) from your generator to maintain a 6 volt battery. You will need 9.6 volts (10.5 volts when using headlights) to properly maintain a 8 volt battery.

If you put on an 8 volt battery and you don’t tweak your regulator; you regulator not allow any output from the generator because it thinks it has a full battery.

Lead Acid battery degrade 40% faster when not maintain with a proper charge.

About positive ground; due to gasses from the battery, the positive terminal always has a tendency to collect corrosion and cause poor connection. Ford engineers thought if the applied the positive terminal of the battery to the ground connection (reversing current flow) it would reduce the terminal corrosion and the corrosion that would form would not have as much effect on reduced voltage. ...a little bit of trivia.
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BUT--- if you have a three brush type generator, it will charge a eight volt battery just fine. I've even seen them keep a twelve volt charged. This is because the three brush rig tries to keep a given amount of amperes (set by third brush) flowing. This is why a three brush should NEVER be run open circuit- the voltage keeps climbing, until it goes nova.

Herb Kephart

I am going with 6 volt; the generator/regulator and starter are good!

Wingnut,

Because of the 'nature' of this forum - keep / restore to original and so on - I'm sure many here will celebrate your decision to keep your truck 6 volt.

Essentially I don't have as much of a 'problem' with modifications as other fellows here. But that is one modification I wouldn't make, especially when it seems likely that all other elements of your truck will be restored to original.

Personally, I 'feel' you made the correct decision.

Bill.

Good choice! You will find more support for keeping 6 volt than changing to 12. There were and are still a bunch of old Chevrolets using 6 volt systems with few problems. All of my pre-55 fleet still have the three cell batteries.