VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Car Trailer Design

Interesting info and discussion about brakes the last few days.

However some of us are still wondering when Louis is going to share his 'design ideas.' At least the ones that he thinks are the most important, helpful, etc. etc. Come on Louis. That's what this whole thing is about. Sharing info and helping the rest of us.

Bill.

I am thinking about trying to make an inclosed trailer for my truck and it would be very helpful to me if someone has already built one. I need to know where to start and what kind of parts to buy. Any help from you Louis would really make me a happy camper. Thanks.

Mike McNeil had a enclosed trailer, he enclosed a regular open carhauler or utility trailer, he sold it to another VCCA club member. It was a nice hauler for a 27 or 28 car. Mike doesn't have a computer but he is listed in the directory and G&D, I don't know if he worked from plans or not.

Thanks MrMack...Oscar

I only have 1500 series tow vehicles, so due to wieght restriction I pull an open trailer. I bought new one off the floor from Featherlite, and it cost more than most lower tier closed trailers. There were very few "options" offered other than an air dam, and the factory design is very good, and well made! I have made several modifications to it. The best one I feel is I installed aluminum "L" channels to the floor that run the length of the trailer and are positioned to be 2.5 inches from the inside of the tires. These rails would hope prevent the vehicle from sliding left or right on the trailer in case of an emergency situation. It does limit the use of the trailer to certian wheelbase, but then again I am not concerned about anyone else's vehicle other than my own fitting on there. One thing I found the hard way is

I only have 1500 series tow vehicles, so due to weight restriction I pull an open trailer. I bought new one off the floor from Featherlite, and it cost more than most lower tier closed trailers. There were very few "options" offered other than an air dam, and the factory design is very good, and well made! I have made several modifications to it. The best one I feel is I installed aluminum "L" channels to the floor that run the length of the trailer and are positioned to be 2.5 inches from the inside of the tires. It prevents the vehicle from running into the outer rail when loading and scraping up the whitewalls on my 60. These rails would hope prevent the vehicle from sliding left or right on the trailer in case of an emergency situation. It does limit the use of the trailer to certain wheelbase, but then again I am not concerned about anyone else's vehicle other than my own fitting on there. One thing I found the hard way is NEVER LOAN YOUR TRAILER OUT TO ANYONE!!!!!!!!! I do not run a tow service.

I have some other improvements I made and I will try to post a few photos over the weekend. I always seek ideas to make my trailer safer, I am let down that Louis opted not to participate any further and share any of his designs with us, and sort of avoided the thread after he teased us with his design ideas. I know he has been around because I have seen other posts made by him, it really is a shame, I was looking forward to what he had to contribute especailly on open trailers because there is very little that can be done

See you in a few days,
John

As to what can be done with your featherlight open trailer to make it safer, have faith in the way it was built, but make sure it trails straight, keep good radial traile tires, loading the trailer correctly for good weight distribution, useing good tiedowns and doing the regular maintenance, tire Air pressure, electrical wireing be sure your brake controller is properly setup. Drive like you are flying. Divide your attention between instrument scanning and your maximum distance forward to where you will be in the next 30 seconds and your rear view, do not be distracted by conversation or what is coming our of the speakers, you have plenty to listen to and to keep focused on!

I have pulled 32' Coachman travel trailers, bass boats, pontoon boats, open and closed trailers hauling cars from 1928 to 1985, pickup trucks, small farm tractors. and always used 1500 series Chevrolets with 5.7 and the new 5300 series Tahoes, without problems. I also always use Reese weight distrubution hitches, that put some of the trailer weight onto the front axle of the towing vehicle and electric brakes on these vehicles with the trailering packages. I have a 2500 series GMC with a 5.7 engine and a goodneck and a frame mounted ball hitch. The GMC isn't any different handleing with the 18'steel open trailer or the 20' Pace American Pursuit covered trailer. The main difference is that the GMC has a 5 speed manual overdrive and the Tahoe and 1500 Silverado extended cab Chevys with automatic overdrive get from 5 to 6 more miles per gallon, at the same speeds than the GMC. I drive from 60 to 65 MPH, and usually on flat land use the cruise control. I have been in a couple of hairy situations, someone cut's you off on the freeway a tire blows out.. I have been using tongue pull, 5th wheel trailers large semi-trucks and trailers hauling road equipment from street brooms, to 100,000 crushing plants, since the mid 1950s without having a serious accident or loss of control. I think a lot of it has been being at the right place at the right time, and just dumb good luck.

A factor that everyone needs to factor in is your driving skills, a large tow truck will not compensate for poor driving skills nor make you a safer driver.

More weight requires more fuel, the tow truck counts for more weight, and with a weight distributing hitch and electric brakes a well loaded trailer (trailer center of gravity toward the front trailer axle) and the tongue weight within the medium to maximum limit will make the trailer handling much better, a center of gravity behind the front trailer axle will cause dangerous swaying of the trailer, and could cause loss of control if anything suddenly happens, like being passed by a large semi, or a blown tire out on the trailer, or driver inattention and running off the roadway.

Always have a good set of tires, a good jack (small hydraulic shop jack) a 4 way lug wrench, some wood blocks scotch blocks and good tiedowns, either heavy nylon ratchet straps of chains and binders. both of my car haulers have winches, the covered Pace trailer has a 2500# electric with a battery mounted in the trailer and the open trailer has a large manual trailer winch, and it will load a car that won't run. One of those inexpensive electric winches that mounts on the hitch ball or can be chained to the trailer tongue is adequate to load a non running vintage car.
Good luck and keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down......

Tim
Send me a private email and I'll give you details of my trailer which i use to tow my 28 sedan to the rallies that are a long way from home.
I've owned my trailer for over 30 years and it's been all over eastern Australia towing many different model Chevs.
A mate is currently building one based on mine to tow his Chev 4's on the long trips
Chris, Sydney Aus.

Thanks Chris
Am away for a few days. Contact you Monday night.
Tim (Sir Lubalot)

John, I have designed 2 trailers, one is an open trailer (about 10 years ago) and one is an enclosed trailer (the string you refer to). If you want pics I will try and post them for you, also if you want the names and addresses of the trailer companies I will be only too happy to send that to you also,you too bill.

The open trailer that I designed was built by a local trailer company close enough to my home that I could be there and work with the builders. The enclosed trailer has fewer of my features as I worked with a national company to build it just the way I wanted it.

Here are the main features of the open trailer, if you need help with yours just ask and I will be glad to help you out.

Here are some excerpts from an email I sent a friend.

"I thought about what kind of trailer I needed for several years and finally took the bull by the horns and decided to build the trailer that would have all of the features I wanted. I found a company a couple of towns over that build trailers and I sat down with the guys and designed the trailer I had in mind and they build it for me.

This was about 10 years ago so off the top of my head these are the features that I wanted and had put into the trailer and they have been great.

1--front hitch, go with the 2 15/16” ball, don’t use a smaller ball; I started with a 2” ball and found out that it was not strong enough (it bent) so the guys replaced it with the larger ball and hitch.

2--You know the triangle area between the hitch and the trailer? I had the guys weld in a bottom and a hinged top with a handle on that area and instead of that area being wasted space it is now the tool box and etc for the trailer. I had the guys weld a couple of links of chain on the top and on the side so I could use a lock to secure it. I also keep the registration and other paperwork in there in a Tupperware box, along with the straps and binders, etc.

3--Rails around the bed of trailer….make sure the rail is low enough for all of your vehicles doors and any future vehicle. I found that 7” high rail allowed the doors to open on my Camaro and Corvette which were the lowest door I have.

4--I went with 2 heavy duty axles and a trailer that my ’57 could fit on with room to spare, I was afraid of the trailer being rear-ended and the car being hurt.

5--Loading ramps. I mounted the ramps on round bar so all I have to do is lift the ramps and they stand up at the rear…plus I think they help protect the car. The round bar goes almost the length of the rear in 2 sections so I can slide the ramps back and forth to fit any vehicle or my garden tractor. I had a keyhole put in the side of the ramps so a chain could be attached from the bottom side of the trailer to secure the ramps and make them lockable also. The longer the ramps the easier it is to load a car...if I build another one I think I would make the ramps out of aluminum and longer than 5 feet.

6--the last 3’ of the trailer is an angled ”˜beaver tail’ to help with the loading angle.

7--the bed of my trailer is pressure treated 2” lumber, which makes the trailer heavier, aluminum would be better but a lot more $$$$. The lumber I used was a full 2" and the length of the bed so I would not have to worry about butting pieces.

8--at each of the rear corners of the trailer are Bull Dog crank down jacks which means I can jack them down to keep the rear from going down when loading the trailer and it means I can load or unload the trailer without it being attached to the truck.

9--make sure the front jack has enough length to reach your tow hitch.

10--I had a trailer spare tire mount put on the side of the trailer.

11--I had lights recessed into the bottom side of the rear ramps so when they are in the upright position the brake lights are up about 4’ so people can see them…there are additional lights in the rear frame but since the trailer is ”˜beaver-tailed’ those lights are only about 8” above the road. The license plate is also mounted on the ramp under the lights.

12--the trailer has electric brakes on one axle.

13--I mounted a 2” hitch insert upright at the very front of the trailer in the middle (welded to the frame) so I could slide an electric winch (mounted on 2” stock) into it to winch a non-running car onto the trailer. It also makes a great post for my ”˜come-along’ to attach to….the electric winch is still in the future. I have a metal box wired into the corner of the trailer to hold the winch battery…right now it holds short pieces of 4”x4” which I use as wheel chocks and under the front jack foot if I am on solf ground.

14--At the end of the trailer in the middle I have a metal key hold welded to the cross rail so I can attach a chain to the rear axle as I load a car and then drop the chain into the keyhole to bind the car with the come-along pulling at the front.

15--at each corner of the trailer there is a large ”˜D’ bracket welded to cross members (not just attached to the wood floor) for the binding straps or chains and binders…which I keep in the trailer tool box (#2 above) at the front.

If I remember other things I will send them to you.

..."

The only drawback to the trailer is that all of my car buddies love it too...lol

------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yea, in case you need it here is how the word 'design' is defined. Free public education is great.

here

Definitions of design on the Web:

…the act of working out the form of something (as by making a sketch or outline or plan); "he contributed to the design of a new instrument" …plan: make or work out a plan for; devise; "They contrived to murder their boss"; "design a new sales strategy"; "plan an attack"
…design something for a specific role or purpose or effect; "This room is not designed for work"
…an arrangement scheme; "the awkward design of the keyboard made operation difficult"; "it was an excellent design for living"; "a plan for seating guests"
…create the design for; create or execute in an artistic or highly skilled manner; "Chanel designed the famous suit"
…blueprint: something intended as a guide for making something else; "a blueprint for a house"; "a pattern for a skirt"
…a decorative or artistic work; "the coach had a design on the doors"
…make a design of; plan out in systematic, often graphic form; "design a better mousetrap"; "plan the new wing of the museum"
…purpose: an anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions; "his intent was to provide a new translation"; "good intentions are not enough"; "it was created with the conscious aim of answering immediate needs"; "he made no secret of his designs"
…create designs; "Dupont designs for the house of Chanel"
…conceive or fashion in the mind; invent; "She designed a good excuse for not attending classes that day"
…a preliminary sketch indicating the plan for something; "the design of a building" …invention: the creation of something in the mind
…intend or have as a purpose; "She designed to go far in the world of business"

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Some excellent ideas there Louis!!!
A question (or two) for your good self. How do you secure the ramps horozontally once you have lifted them up (to stop them sliding sideways on the round bar) and do you have problems with the round bar flexing/bending if they are used in the middle of their travel when loading a heavy narrow wheel base vehicle. I am guessing they come up against a stop when they are lifted to stand up vertically?
I like the idea of the bulldog jacks on the rear corners!
Tim (Sir Lubalot)

Tim, and Louis C, I think that the hinged ramps are a very good idea. I came up with a set of heavy duty steel ramps that were free bounus when I bought my large riding lawnmower. They hinge in the middle and when unfolded the sections lock to form a sturdy six foot ramp. I have plans to renoavate my 20 year old steel open trailer. I plan to dovetail it and hinge the fold up ramps using a J-slot, with a strap closure guard on the end of the ramp at the round bar mounted on the tail of the trailer (7/8" sucker rod). The ramps can be easily removed with just pulling one self threading cap screw also have the ramps supported by short extensions mounted to the tailboard to releive the weight on the rods. the trailer will also have stops and turnbuckles to maintain the ramps in a verticle position behind the car bumper. I will draw them out on a scale drawing and them build scale model plywood templates to verify that the design works.

Louis, very impressive, and I am glad you decided to share your experience with everyone. I do have a few questions, what ever made you decide to put brakes on only one axle? Why not both? Cost? I don't agree with that at all. You can not have enough brake when you need it! As far as the size of the ball I believe that is rated as to what the load of your trailer is and a 2" is way under,the ball bending does not make any sense to me, that should not happen if everything is tight. I don't know why you would "underbuild" if you are designing I would think you want to go overkill. As far as power for the winch I use the power from my tow vehicle, it is one less battery to go dead, and Superwinch sells a whole kit for this. I have mine hooked up this way and have had no problems.

Thanks for the dictionary information..... I don't know why you bothered.... If you feel you are a designer that's cool with me, but....If a man is able to fix his own teeth does that make him dentist? or something else? or is he only a dentist in his eyes? or just a guy who does part time dental work? Sometimes words can improve ones self worth without any education free or otherwise

As far as free education sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you pay for what you need

And if you are not sure about the contents in a box of chocolates, buy Whitmans
Later
John

John, many of the states only required brakes on one axle and that was the standard back 10 or 20 years ago for trailers haulling less than 6000# I have single axle brakes on a tandem trailer built in 1985, that was all that were available, many trailers haulling less than 6000# didn't have any trailer brakes many of the commercial trailers you see going down the road have NO brakes. Don't that make a guy like you unhappy?
Having a battery in a trailer let's you use the winch and loading lights when the trailer is not connected to the tow vehicle and makes the small ineffective brake- away battery un-necessary, of course we also keep the battery at full charge by chargeing it with the tow vehicle. You need to replace the small brake away battery often, when was the last time you checked the one on your trailer for full amperage? The battery on your tow vehicle don't keep the breaks applied after a brake away occurs. That small trailer mounted break away battery is a feel good device to barely comply with the Federal mandate for brake away law compliance.

Are any of you an "accident looking for a place to happen", when you are towing your Vintage Chevrolet? Many of the vehicles on the roads towing trailers are....

By the way if you have a car hauler trailer that needs additional brakeing, the kits and parts are readily availiable at a quality trailer dealer or online from Northern Tool.
Northern Tool Trailer Parts

Tim I am not sure about W.A but here in N.S.W. you can get a free booklet from the Roads and Traffic Authority it gives you all the formula's and specification ,the differences in axles lights, suspensions ,brakes, etc needed for building a trailer and your legal requirements for the towing vehicle based on what weight and length you are towing . about 20 pages long .

Thanks Jim. I will check it out. I suspected there must have been some guidelines as most trailers over here have to be home built due to a lack of manufacturers
Tim.

Mr Mack,
I replaced my break-away battery every two years, it is cheap enough. I agree I have seen some pretty marginal towing operations in both the VCCA and AACA events I have been to, it is not the Vintage Chevrolet that I am worried about it the life of others that concerns me.

John

Tim and Oscar, I added some information to the list, hope it helps you in getting your trailer. I will try and post some pics ater.

Up-dated data on the open trailer.

1--front hitch, go with the 2 15/16” ball, don’t use a smaller ball; I started with a 2” ball and found out that it was not strong enough (it bent) so the guys replaced it with the larger ball and hitch.

2--You know the triangle area between the hitch and the trailer? I had the guys weld in a bottom and a hinged top with a handle on that area and instead of that area being wasted space it is now the tool box and etc for the trailer. I had the guys weld a couple of links of chain on the top and on the side so I could use a lock to secure it. I also keep the registration and other paperwork in there in a Tupperware box also in the compartment are the straps and binders, basic tools, etc.

3--Rails around the bed of trailer….make sure the rail is low enough for all of your vehicles doors and any future vehicle. I found that 7” high rail allowed the doors to open on my Camaro and Corvette which were the lowest door I have. Rails are 1” square tubing.

4--I went with 2 heavy duty axles and a trailer that my ’57 could fit on with room to spare, I was afraid of the trailer being rear-ended and the car being hurt. Tires are 205-75D 14

5--Loading ramps. I mounted the ramps on round bar so all I have to do is lift the ramps and they stand up at the rear…plus I think they help protect the car on the trailer. The round bar goes almost the length of the rear in 2 sections so I can slide the ramps back and forth to fit any vehicle or my garden tractor. I had a keyhole cut into the side of the ramps so a chain could be attached from the bottom side of the trailer to the ramps to secure the ramps with the chain and lock, this way no one can lower the ramps. The longer the ramps the easier it is to load a car...if I build another one I think I would make the ramps out of aluminum and longer than 50 inches.

6--the last 2’ of the trailer is an angled ”˜beaver tail’ or dove tail to help with loading, especially if you are using a come-along with a non-running vehicle. Top of rear of tail is 12” from ground, side of trailer (bed) is 18-19” high. So there is a 6”-7” drop in the 2 feet of the tail.

7--the bed of my trailer is pressure treated 2” lumber, which makes the trailer heavier, aluminum would be better but a lot more $$$$. The lumber I used was a full 2" x 10” and the length of the bed so I would not have to worry about butting pieces.

8--at each of the rear corners of the trailer are Bull Dog crank down jacks which means I can jack them down to keep the rear from going down when loading the trailer and it means I can load or unload the trailer without it being attached to the truck. When not in use I rotate them 90 degrees and leave them on the attachment or I could lock them away inside the front storage box.

9--make sure the front jack has enough length to reach your tow hitch.

10--I had a trailer spare tire mount put on the side of the trailer.

11--I had lights recessed into the bottom side of the rear ramps so when they are in the upright position the brake lights are up about 3’ up so people can see them easier…there are additional lights in the rear frame but since the trailer is ”˜beaver-tailed’ those lights are only about 10” above the road. The license plate is also mounted on the ramp under the lights.

12--the trailer has electric brakes on one axle.

13--I mounted a 2” hitch insert upright at the very front of the trailer in the middle (welded to the frame) so I could slide an electric winch (mounted on 2” stock) into it to winch a non-running car onto the trailer. It also makes a great post for my ”˜come-along’ to attach to….the electric winch is still in the future. I have a metal box wired into the corner of the trailer to hold the winch battery…right now it holds short pieces of 4”x4” which I use as wheel chocks and under the front jack foot if I am on soft ground.

14--At the end of the trailer in the middle I have a metal key hold welded to the cross rail so I can attach a chain to the rear axle as I load a car and then drop the chain into the keyhole to bind the car with the come-along pulling at the front.

15--at each corner of the trailer there is a large ”˜D’ bracket welded to the front or rear and side cross members (not just attached to the wood floor) for the binding straps or chains and binders…which I keep in the trailer tool box (#2 above) at the front.

16--Side rails are made of ”˜C’ steel 1 ¾” by 5”.

17--Bed joists are 1 ¾” x 5” ”˜I’ beams.

18--Top of fenders are the same height as the side rails, 7”.

19--Trailer bed is 78” wide.

20--Trailer bed is 18 feet long plus an additional 2 feet of beaver tail for a total bed length of 20 feet. This is the bed only not the front metal hitch part.

21--Side rails of loading ramps are made of ”˜C’ steel 1 ½” x 3” with 1 ½” half square stock for ”˜steps’.

22--Every 4 feet along the side of trailer are threaded 1” pipe fittings and 1 ¾” x 4” brackets; I can screw in pipes to make a roof or use 2”x4” wood to make the roof.

23-- when first built the trailer was all black, I re-painted it a couple of years ago with some red and yellow paint I found in my shop….the trailer does stand out now so in my mind it is safer. I bought some neon orange spray paint and painted the bottom side of the ramps so when they are in the upright position the neon is seen. I also sprayed some clear reflection paint over the neon.

I found a company a couple of towns over that build trailers and is a welding company and I sat down with the guys and designed this trailer with them and they build it for me.

In over 10 years of use this trailer has met all of my needs and has never let me or anyone else down. Plus it tows great, you don’t even know it is there; loaded or empty.

The only drawback to the trailer is that all of my car buddies love it too...lol

PS…my enclosed V-nose Pace trailer is 32’ from front hitch to rear. With the ’57 in it, it is 10,000 lbs. Never weighted the open trailer, however it is heavy.

Louis,
You never mentioned why you opted for brakes on only one axle? What is the reason for this rather than both? It seems like a pretty heavy rig with the wood floors and all I know my open Featherlite is 1,500 pounds with an aluminum floor, and I can feel that pushing me with the brakes off. Single axle brakes seem like they could get pretty hot, and if you have to disconect one side due to a problem, now you really could have a problem.

What did this all cost?

John

$2500

You did get a lot for the price but you never answered the brake question
John

Texas deer hubting wagon, we don't have a trailer for it yet. It was built with four wheel brakes and a wet bar. we do have to rough it, no A/C but we compensate with the icey cold beer, scotch , burbon and a gallon or two of salty dog!Notice that we let the youngsters trail along in the Hummer.

Come on fellows. This topic has gotten completely out of hand and off subject. This thread is for discussion about 1912-28 subjects. If you care to continue the subject of trailers, please do so under General Discussions.

I will now close and lock this thread.