Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


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Joined: Mar 2007
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Posts: 101
Can anyone tell us what the difference is between a J-969-2 and a J-9692a tool (gages)for checking the dipper height (one side of the tool) and for checking the oil trough height (other side of the tool). According to my shop manuals the tool J-969-2 was used for 216 Chevys 1937 - 1948 and J-969-2a was used for 1949 - 1953. The 235 Chevys used a J-1646 tool of similar shape and design but of slightly different length (I assume). I am interested to know the exact lengths on the J-969-2 (for 1938) of the round bars (1 on one side and 2 on the other like a football goal post that has one shaft from the cross bar to the ground but 2 posts for the "uprights"). One VCCA member here seems to have the dimensions of the J-969-2a tool (I don't have them yet), but I cannot confirm whether they are different from the J-969-2 tool?
If I have these dimensions I can make the tool (J-969-2). But, in addition, I am interested in aquiring a J-969-1 tool for checking the aim of the oil nozzles. I would be quite happy with a cardboard version if it where accurately enought made with references of the dimensions of the locations of the holes that are used as targets in the tool. Obviously the 6 holes are aligned in the middle of the troughs but on the side of the pan. What I do not know is the height below the top of the oil pan and how far over they are from the side of the pan (or from the center of the oil pan where the end of the oil nozzle is located). The vericle portion of the tool is made at an angle to the horizontal portion which rests on top of the pan.
Can any body help me or make an alternative suggestion of how to check the oil nozzles, trough heights and dipper heights. I am installing a new oil pan that needs to gaged before use. Thanks for any help. Mike

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I have a set of these gauges for the '37-'48 216, but I'm away from home until Saturday afternoon. I'll check back when I get home and, if you haven't received the info by then, I'll get it to you.
-Bob


-BowTie Bob
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Thanks for the offer, BowtieBob.

I am most interested to see the dimensions of each of the two sets of rods on both sides of the J-969-2, and compare these with the J-9692a tool that one member has. If you could both post them it would help us all as we could make our own tools from these. That may solve my first question and problem.

As for the second question (related to the J-969-1 Oil Nozzle Aiming Target Gage) I hope I can get the dimensions or a "Trace" of the tool on cardboard or paper to be able to make my own cardboard version(I can make duplicates of it for one time use as they get wet and distorted).
Thanks for the help from anyone who can. "Keep 'em Rolling"

By the way, apparently from what I read in the 49-53 Manual, the J-969-2a tool has a "Go" section ground into the cross member and a "No Go" section which is presumably the flat and unground portion of the cross member next to the "Go" section. The dipper must hit (touch or interfer) the "No Go" flat part and miss (have some clearence) on the "Go" section. This feature of the tool is not available on the J-969-2 version?
Mike

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The J-969-1 gage consists of two parts: a vertile portion with the 6 aiming holes that is welded to the horizontal portion that rests on top of the pan and located via the pan bolt holes. The verticle portion is not 100% verticle in that it is at a slight angle to the horizontal. That angle is also needed. Mike

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My Kent-Moore catalog is a 1939 edition and lists the J969-1 (oil pan target); J969-2 (oil pan trough depth); and J969-3 (oil line nozzle depth) gauges, as being correct for 1937-1939 216" engines. I believe these gauges were also correct for all the later 216" engines, as well. I'm sure someone on this board can confirm that.

In any event, the original K-M J969-2 Oil Pan Trough Depth Gauge I have, measures (by dial caliper) as follows:
1. Two side posts for checking the con-rod "dipper" heights are 3/8" diameter and are spaced apart 9-3/8", center-to-center. Each post is 3.969" (3-31/32") in length and the ends are flat. The bar lengths given do not include TOTAL length for manufacture. If anyone is making a set of gauges, add 1/4" to the length of each of the (3) bars, as they appear to be pressed into holes drilled in the center "beam".

2. The single Trough Depth Gauge is also 3/8" in diameter and is 3.750" (3-3/4") in length. This single bar is in the center of the "beam", on the opposite side from the pair of rods described in #3 following. The end of the rod is chamferred, approx. 45°, about 3/16" long, to a 1/8" flat.

3. The center "beam" is 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide x 10-1/8" long.

4. There is no "Go, No-Go" sections on ththe J969-2 gauge

20+ years ago, I borrowed an original K-M Oil Pan Target gauge (J969-1 and made ten copies. These were all tested against the original on a NOS 216" oil pan for accuracy comparison. I sold eight of the copies and I still have one of those gauges that I kept for myself and a second one that I never got around to selling. If you are interested in buying the extra gauge I have, send me a PM and we can discuss it offline.

I also have an original K-M J969-3 Oil Line Nozzle Depth Gauge and could send you a tracing of it, if you'd like.

Sorry if my verbage above got confusing, but I've been up & driving waaaay too long today. If anyone has any questions, I'd be more than happy to (try to) clarify.
-Bob

Last edited by Bowtie Bob; 07/21/07 10:07 PM.

-BowTie Bob
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PLEASE NOTE !!

I re-checked my figures above, this morning and found an error in one of my measurements concerning J969-2.

Item #2 should read 3.718" (23/32") in length", not 3.750 as previously stated.

Sorry for the error and I hope no harm was done. I tried to go back and edit my original post, but there must be a time limit for editing, although I have no idea why and see no purpose for the limit. crazy

Last edited by Bowtie Bob; 07/22/07 08:15 AM.

-BowTie Bob
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OK New Info on the difference between the J-969-2 (1937 to 1947 or 1948) and the J-969-2a (1949 to 1953) tool for adjusting the oil dippers (scoopers)and for checking the height of the oil troughs on 216 engines. Another VCCA member has a J-969-2a tool and the dimensions are the same as what BowtieBob has indicated (including his ammendment) except that the oil dipper check rods (double rods) length are 4.000 inches (instead of the 3 and 31/32) with a small pad riveted to the cross bar at the center which is 1/16 inch thick but only half the width of the cross bar. Thus the dipper must pass with clearence when the cross bar alone is positioned above the dipper and hit (interferr) when the small pad is positioned over the dipper. Thus they have added a "Go", "No Go" feature to allow for a tolernce on the j-969-2a tool. Where as on the original J-969-2 tool the dipper is supposed to "just touch" the cross bar with rods of length 3 and 31/32 inches. [Note that this lenght of the original tool rods in an average of the the two lenghts built into the J-969-2a tool] Hope this is clear and helps. I thank the 2 VCCA members who supplied this info to me. Mike

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For those who do not want to make a J-969-2 or J-9692a tool (from the above description and dimensions) it has been suggested that to check how well your dippers are working by filling the trough's with grease and then install the pan and gasket, then rotate the crank by hand and then remove the pan to see how well the dippers dug into the grease.Then remove the grease and reinstall the pan after you are sure that things are OK. I heard this description many years ago but forgot about it until someone reminded me of it. Mike

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For completeness and for those who do make a J-969-2 or J-969-2a tool for adjusting and checking the dippers and for checking the oil trough postions, here is what I found in making my J-969-2a tool:
1. The J-969-2a in an improved version of the J-969-2 so can be used for all 216 engines (see above discussion).
2. I used a 1/2 x 1/2 square bar stock for the cross beam which allowed for threaded joints where the 3 rods attach to the cross beam and allowed for easy and accurate adjustment of rod length. I use 3/8 - 24 thread bolts and cut the heads off. Be sure they are not too long as they should not penetrate completely throught the cross beam and protrude out the other side even though I drilled the holes through. I used 2 nuts on one side of the cross beam on each rod to lock the rods into the cross beam. 3/8- 16 threads are a lot more common bolt but I liked the finer thread for more accuracy in adjusting the rod length.
3. I used a 1/16 inch thick shim stock (1/4 x 1.75 inches) that was drilled on each end). Below these drilled holes, I drilled and tapped #4 - 40 threads for #4 flat head screws, counter sunk into the shim stock to be flat with shim stock (use .089 inch dia drill bit and tap #4-40 threads). Just use a larger drill bit to cut the counter sink.
4. If I can do it, so can anyone else, so good luck.
Mike


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