VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 starter problem - 41 sedan

I'm new to the antique car world and would appreciate some info. Sometimes the car (new purchase) starts just fine, other times it will not crank at all. The battery seems OK - lights, horn, etc work fine. The gauge shows that the system is dis-charging. The mechanics replaced the condinser.

Just yesterday I was about to take the battery out and charge it, however decided to try starting one more time - It started right up. I drove it for a few miles, parked it in my driveway and now cannot get it to start. Any info greatly appreciated.

HI Gary

Welcome aboard.

Hard to give a recommendation from the given facts. Assuming you still have the starter reversing switch I would suspect it. Could also be bad cable, or bad spot on the starter.

(On the go in Bozeman MT)

Thanks.

Years ago I had a F*** that would do that. It would either start or it wouldn't and when it wouldn't the starter wouldn't even kick in. You never knew from moment to moment if it was going to start or not.

The problem turned out to be in the starter but it took me awhile to figure that out as it gave no other signs of being bad. I forget what was wrong with it. I just replaced the entire unit.

Thanks.

Hi Gary,

When you say it doesn't start I assume it will turn over. This eliminates the starting system and points to the electrical side. This includes the starter reversing switch and harness or distributor problems. Changing the condenser was a smart move. Now check the points at three or more spots around the circle. Check the coil by using a known good coil. Check both the hot wire and the wire from the distributor. Insure the distributor wire is well connected.

If you still have problems, come on back with a good description.

(On the road in Bozeman, MT)

I am not sure we have eliminated the Starter. We need more information. In his first post, he says "sometimes it will not crank at all."

Gary, when it will not start - does the engine turn over, or not?

(Assuming it does not turn over at all) when you say the gauge shows Discharge - are you saying that when you hit the starter, the gauge goes all the way to discharge and the engine fails to turn over - and then other times, everything behaves normally?

With a fully charged battery, it will start. While driving the gauge shows dis-charge always. After driving a short time, it will not start again, however the battery is still strong enough for the horn & lights to function.

Note, I also discovered that this car has a Positive ground on the battery. I guess that is normal for this model?? Thanks.

But you still have not answered the most critical question:

when it will not start, does the engine TURN OVER, or not?

Always showing discharge is a separate problem.

ALL Chevrolets have a negitive ground system. The battery may be "charged" enough to light the lights but not strong enough to turn over the engine. The ammeter should be to the + side (with engine above idle speed) if the battery is low or when first starting the engine. After properly reconecting the battery the generator should be polorized by jumping across the GEN and BATT terminals on the voltage regulator. Do this just long enough to cause a spark.

After you do what Chev Nut suggests, if you still show a discharge when driving the car, then either your generator or your voltage regulator is probably defective.

:) :grin:

No, it will not. Thanks.

Dear Chev Nut - I appreciate your help. As you probably have guessed, I am an amature when it comes to auto mechanics.

Currently my '41 Chevy is grounded - positive. I mentioned this to the mechanics that have been helping me and they confirmed that this was correct. They indicated, I believe, that some cars from England may be set up that way also. According to the numbers, my car was made in Wisconsin. Are you sure that I can exchange the positive and negative cables?? When you say;

After properly reconecting the battery the generator should be polorized by jumping across the GEN and BATT terminals on the voltage regulator. Do this just long enough to cause a spark.
I think I understand why however, I am not sure how I should do this. I understand working around batteries can be somewhat dangerous and I don't want to have the battery blow up, etc.

Thank you and the others for your help.

I'm guessing that "No, it will not" - is in answer to the question about 'will the engie turn over' when the No-Start situation arises.

Therefore, there are (at least) TWO problems:

I believe the Starter has a dead spot, and needs to be rebuilt. This is why sometimes it will turn and start, and sometimes it will not (turn nor start).

I also believe it is not charging, and thus the battery gradually wears down, compounding the Starter issue. We do not yet have enough information to determine why it isn't charging.


The positive ground needs to be put back to negative ground as advised above, and re-polarize the Generator. Turn the battery around in its box. This is not unsafe to do.

And get a new mechanic! if he thinks positive ground on an old Chevy is OK.

ChevyGuru - Thanks. OK, I'm going to re-charge the battery - connect the black cable to negatice ground - connect the red cable to where the black one is currently connected (I may have to buy a new one because of the cable length) - I'll turn the battery around - how do I re-polerize the generator (sorry to be so ignorant about this) Thanks

One other bit of information. The battery is an 8 volt. Four caps on top of battery. My mechanic said that it should be a 6 volt, however this should not be a problem. Do you think that this figures into my problems?? Thanks everyone.

As Chevy Guru stated....you need to get a new mechanic!!! All Chevrolets are negative ground.

To polarize the generator do as Chev Nut suggested: "After properly reconnecting the battery the generator should be polorized by jumping across the GEN and BATT terminals on the voltage regulator. Do this just long enough to cause a spark." Remember to do the above with the key off.

Since you have an 8 volt battery get rid of it and go back to a 6 volt battery. The 8 volt battery will give you nothing but problems.

Also, if your generator is not charging, you are running on battery power which will quickly drain your battery. Your battery will get to a point where it is so low that it will not turn the starter over, however you can still have the horn or the headlights working. I would change out your battery to a 6 volt.......change back to negative ground like your car should be, polarize the generator, and then start up the car. If the ammeter is showing a charge then everything is cool. With the battery fully charged and at that point if the starter will not turn over then you will probably need to rebuild the starter.

:) :grin:

Gary.

To re-polarise the generator, you need to find the voltage regulator, which is a small box with a black screwed on cover. It is normally mounted on the firewall in the engine bay. It has 3 wires attached. These three wires are marked on the lugs that the wires attach to with: " GEN" "BAT" "F"(field). these markings are under the wire attachements and you may need to remove the wires to work out which ones are where.

After you change the battery to negative ground, take a piece of heavy gauge auto wire and touch briefly the bat and gen terminals. This will repolarise the generator.( to ensure that it has residual magnetism in the iron plates around which the field coils are wound.

Because your battery has been connected incorrectly, all the charging system has been fighting against itself.This is why your ammeter wont read charge, because it needs the correct battery polarity to make it work.( it has coils which open and close contacts and allow the battery to charge).


You may want to check that you have the original voltage regulator also. My cars are 39's and have DELCO REMY stamped in the cover on the regulator. You may find the regulator has been change by whoever put in the 8 volt battery.

There is other threads in this chat site which discuss 8 volt batterys versus 6 volt originals.

Best of luck Jack

Thank you and the other so very much. I think I am now getting some where.

Hi Guys,
There probably isn't a charging problem at all.The ammeter will show discharge when reverse polarity is connected.I say starter all the way.By the way,my VCCA application is in the mail.
Regards,Ray

Ray, As they say "Welcome to the Club". :)

Thanks again to everyone that responded to my plea for help on starting the "41 Chevy.

I set things back from a posative to a negative ground, replaced the 8 volt with a 6 volt battery, replaced the posative battery cable, tried doing the set the polarity thing and IT STARTED RIGHT UP - IT'S CHARGING INSTEAD OF DIS -CHARGING - EVERYTHING SEEMS COOL - I'VE BEEN DRIVING IT ALL MORNING.

Note; I found the regulator - there was no identification on the box or the three wires coming out - from a picture that I found, I got a wire and put it against what I believed to be the GEN & BAT wires - nothing seemed to happen.

I'm headed off for some vacation time and I plan on submitting an application for the Chevy Club upon return. Again, thanks everyone.

OUTSTANDING!

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