VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 31 sagging rear spring

Seems I have another project for the winter.

The drivers side rear spring is sagging at the front shackle connection. Instead of having a slight upward arch it has sagged and is flat. Result is rear left side of car is about 1 1/8" lower than the right side.
My repair manual has a section on replacing the spring shackles but nothing on replacing or removing the springs themselves.

Might anyone out there be able to refer me to a site that might have the instructions for removing or replacing the rear springs.

Can I get the spring leaf repaired or do I need to replace the effected spring leafs? or the entire spring assembly? Do I have to do anything to the right side spring assembly?

Before I do anything I also want to make sure I have the necessary replacement parts on hand. What will I need and where can I locate them (I assume I will need to replace the spring shackles.


Thanks

Ditto for me on replacing my sagging front springs. I have seen in the "Chevy Six" manual that there's some kind of special tool for removing the bolts on the ends. It appears to be a more challenging job not well suited to a greenhorn mechanic. I was about to post my own note as well, but I'll just hitch a ride on your posting, John.

Hi guys.
I had my 32's front springs redone last year. It's not that hard. I didn't use any special tools to remove them or put them back in. I used a hydrolic floor jack to just take the weight off the suspension, tires still on the floor and then used floor stands to hold up the car. Then I used the floor jack again to support the axle while I undid all the shackle bolts. I had to lightly tap out the bolts with a deep socket because of all the dried grease. If you feel there is a strain on the shackle just move the hydrolic jack a slightly higher or lower. Then I undid the mounting U bolts on the axle. Be sure to save the shims between the axle and bottom of the spring.
I brought them to Jenson & Mitchell here in north Jersey (Paterson) and they re-bent them to specs that they still had on record. They go way back to the earier days. My Dad used them in Jersey City back in the fourties.
If you feel like calling them here's the number. Paterson 973-279-3535, Newark 973-824-5655, Jersey City 201-332-4140.
I'm sure somebody has a better way to do this, but it was easy for me, and I'm not an accomplished mechanic.

The rear springs can be removed and sent to a company that re arches springs. Both rear spring units should be done, not just one side. It is very common to re arch individual spring leaves, or..you can have new springs made as well.

Yes, you should install new spring shackles, if you haven't already done so.

Try this link: http://www.eatonsprings.com/

Now that I'm home.. ...the specific chapter in the Chevy Six manual, Removing and Adjusting Spring Shackles, states "In servicing these new spring shackles, two new special tools are necessary. The new spring shackle press, Kent Moore No. 6-337, Fig. 123A, is designed to remove and install shackle pins"(page 387). On the next page it states "The spring shackle tension washer gauge, Kent Moore No. N-384, Fig. 123B, is necessary to get the correct tension of spring shackles on the shackle pins."

Are you guys saying that these aren't really needed, or, you can substitute more modern, common tools to do the same jobs?

How does one determine which if any other spring leaves need to be redone? Do you simple compare the left to right side by each leaf? How do I know that any of teh leaves have the correct arch?

Besides shackles should any other part of teh rear leaf assembly be replaced at this time?

Yes, replace the spring eye bolt and bushing as well.

The spring company that does the work will have the specs. for each individual spring leaf so the current arch of the leaf can be compared to the original specs. Removing both rear spring assemblies is sort of a major process, so prepare to roll up your sleeves and get dirty.

Hi Ed,
The "spring shackle press" might be used to press the collars into the spring ends. Jenson & Mitchell did that for me at the shop. It was part of the cost to re-arc the springs, as well as the new pins. The "tension washer gauge" they are refering to might just be a torque wrench that you would use to tighten the shackle bolts.

I'm sorry yellowcabguy. I did not do the rear springs yet.

My shackles were fine. A mechanic friend looked at them and said, as long as there is no visible wear inside the cups they should be OK. He thought they were replaced already, although they did have the Chevy bow tie on them.

The tension gauge tool is not a torque wrench. It is a special thickness gauge that is inserted under the tension spring to get the correct convex curve to the tension spring as the shackle bolt is tightened.

Removing the shackle pins from the frame for replacement could take lots of heat from a torch to get them to press out after being in place a number of years. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey JYD,
So did I do OK by using the same "arc shims"? I didn't know about the gauge thing...? I assume the shop corrected the arc.

I didn't have to use heat at all. One front pin was a little stuck, but I sprayed it with penetrating oil and it tapped out easy.

Sure! As long as the tension on all of the tension spring washers is the same.

The shackle pins on my car were in so tight, due to age, that the bare frame (couldn't have done this with the body on) was turned on it's side in a very large 20 ton commercial shop press and pressure was applied as the pins were heated with a torch. This is the only way that the shackle pins would come out. :( :(

Yikes!
Sounds like they were badly rusted or over heated due to no grease.
I got lucky in that my car came from a farm on Long Island, NY and the entire frame was covered in a grease and dirt "clump". Sort of encased in a cocoon. Guess it preserved a lot of things.

This whole conversation is scaring me. :eek: So taking off the front springs is major undertaking that might need torches and commercial bench presses?! My one car garage or I haven't graduated from our official back yard mechanic status.

Ed;

Don't get too scared. Your car is probably like most of all the rest. I think JYD's was the exception. Unless I got increadbly lucky, you shouldn't have any more problems than I did. Remember I never removed a spring before, and I am not a professioal mechanic. Just take your time. Safety first!
Ray

Using a hydraulic press, the shackle pins in the springs actually came right out without much effort. However, the pins in the frame were a different story, and I have known others that had the same problem with the shackle pin removal from the frame due to slight rust or corrosion. :( :( :( :(

Oohhh, I think I understand better, now. So I could remove the spring itself and just leave the shackle in place on the frame.

Regarding the special tension gauge tool:
a) is it sufficient to judge the tension spring by eye/intuition?
b) Can I substitute a feeler gauge or similar to get reasonably close results? or..
c) Is it critical to find and use this tool?

Yes, you can leave the pins in the frame IF they are not worn. If they have tapered wear or if they are broken on the ends, then you will have no choice but to replace them and the shackle arms as well. :( :(

It is not critical to use the tension gauge tool. Just make sure that all of the shackle arm tension spring washers have the same clearance....which is compressing the convex tension spring washer almost half way to the flat position. :cool2:

A simple press can be made to take out the shackle pins. A piece of pipe just a bit longer than the length of a pin. I don't remember the internal size but think it was 1" water pipe. A long bolt or all thread, thick washers and nuts is all you need. You will likely need to warm the frame ends to remove the pins from the frame. The ones in the springs will come out much more easily. If the length of the bolt or all thread is long enough the same tool can be used to pull the new pin into position. Fine thread and hard bolts of the largest size that will fit inside the pin are the best.