VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 The Rock, The Hard Place, and The DMV.

Good Evening, All!

Newbie on this board. I’m a recent military retiree going back to school (aaaakkk!) on the Vietnam-Era GI Bill and (finally!) getting back to a single-seat street rod project that’s been waiting too long. I’m looking for some suggestions on how to proceed since it appears the California DMV changed the rules on me sometime after buying two frames. I’m looking for thoughts about my options from the collected multitude.

The Rock: I’ve got a bare frame (it had been made into a 4-wheel trailer in the 1940’s), 4 cantilevered single quarter elliptic springs, and a front axle with no brakes that has a dip in the center. It’s got a 103 inch wheelbase based on center-of-rebound-block to same. I believe it was a 1918-1921 490 (correct me of I’m wrong, anyone). I bought it from my brother, so getting another bill of sale with (ahem, ahem) more detail should be no problem. If it’s model year 1922 or earlier it meets the California “Historical Vehicle” definition (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5004.htm ).

The Hard Place: I’ve also got a bare frame with 4 cantilevered single quarter elliptic springs, straight (no dip) front axle with no brakes, and non-demountable disc wheels with detachable/demountable rims for 30 x 3 ½ clincher tires, so I think it’s a Superior. It’s got a 103 inch wheelbase based on center-of-rebound-block to same. This has only a bill of sale for what the PO thought it was- 1921 Chevy- and, since there were no identifiable numbers anywhere, there are no numbers on the bill of sale.

Either could have been one of the commercial chassis or touring chassis units and therefore would had no original, factory body (hint, hint- hey, it could happen!)

Since there’s no identifying marks on either frame they’re interchangeable. I’m inclined to bolster the paperwork case for the first frame if the collective opinion is that it’s model year 1922 or earlier. In either case, I’ve got someone who can make a replacement data plate… Can anyone provide a clean photo of a 490 data plate? Also, where were they attached on the chassis units? I understand they were usually attached to the seat frame, but the one photo I can find on the net of a chassis unit doesn’t show a seat.

Many thanks in advance!

Kenneth

Ken; The straight axel started in 1924(series "F"). The axel with a dip was 1923 ("B" series) and earlier 490's. You can buy a plate for the 490 (1916-1922) from the Filling Station for $6.50. (www.fillingstation.com)

Check out this web site for help also:

Chevytalk

Well, the mystery deepens just a bit. I can find just one website with 4 cylinder Chevy parts lists ( http://chevy.tocmp.com/1916_28parts/index.htm ) and the springs on what I believe to be a 490 ("the rock") don't match. The frame in question has 9 leaves front, 10 leaves rear, and the parts list on that website doesn't show that combination. Any ideas, anyone?

Also, the 490 tags at fillingstation.com are $9.50 but that's a bit academic since they're out of stock. Thanks for the tip, though, and I'm sure they'll be in stock before I need it.

Thanks in advance,

Kenneth

Does your chassis have 4 L shaped running board brackets, or
do they have large 90 degree brackets riveted to the frame side
members for the front running board brackets?.

if it has the large riveted brackets it is mor than likely 1920-22. Also 1920-22 chassis had the same part number. No frame number was issued. Engine # was used .and flywheel number

1920-22 chassis uses heavy spring mounting castings which are box
shaped and the springs mount into them.
1916-19 springs are bolted from undernieth and not boxed in.
spring counts are different for which body was fitted, roadster,
tourer , sedan and light delivery

Ken here's another Chevy 4 cylinder parts supplier.

http://www.20schevyparts.com/

Good Morning, Jack and Everyone Else!

"The Rock" had been made into a four wheel trailer and didn't have running board hangers when I got it. "The Hard Place" (probably a Superior due to the disc wheels) had running board hangers kind of like shelf brackets- they hung down about 8-10 inches, were 12-15 inches long (the front ones being a couple of inches longer than the rear ones) and were riveted to the frame with 3 rivets each. "The Rock" has holes for rivets in the same places so I'm pretty sure it had the same type running board hangers.

Both frames have the same four casting numbers on the spring hangers: 341472RH front, passenger side; 341473LH front, driver's side; 341542RH rear, passenger side; and 341543LH rear, driver's side, but those casting numbers don't show as part numbers at http://chevy.tocmp.com/1916_28parts/cp4cm33.htm . Hope that helps someone.

I understand about the different spring counts, but the nine front and ten rear on "the rock" doesn't show in the parts list at http://chevy.tocmp.com/1916_28parts/cp4cm35.htm , and no individual spring has been doubled up as might have been done by an individual. I think it was from the factory that way. Each spring is shorter than the one under it (except the second leaf on the front, of course).

Thanks!

Kenneth

Hi Ken.
The part numbers for the spring mounting castings are for
a 1924 superior chassis. from my parts manual dated Feb 1st 1924.

I Don't know if they continued into later model superiors.
Jack

Thanks, Jack! Houston, we have a data point! The frames are identical because they're both from 4-cylinder Chevy Superiors from model year 1924 or later. That narrows it a bit.

Steve- you said that the straight axle began to be used in the 1924 "F" series and that the axle with the dip was used in the 1923 "B" series and in the earlier 490's. The data sheet at http://chevy.tocmp.com/1916_28parts/cp4cm00b.htm shows both "F" and "B" series as being sold in model year 1924, but only the "F" series in model year 1925, so that narrows "the rock" as not earlier than 1924 and not later than 1924. In other words, it appears it's a 1924 Superior.

Scanning Chevy Superior materials on eBay (great resource, isn't it?) it appears the other one ("the hard place") is a DeLuxe Touring or DeLuxe Sedan assuming the non-demountable disc wheels with detachable/demountable 30x3 1/2 clincher rims are original.

That still leaves the problem of the 9 leaf front/10 leaf rear springs. Both cars appear to have had been in northern California before WWII, so there's a decent chance they were both built in Oakland. Is it possible a "western" or "mountain" suspension variant of the Superior was made at the Oakland plant?

Thanks again Jack, Steve, and thanks in advance if anyone can help with identifying the second frame.

Kenneth

Ken.

Are you rear springs rolled bushing ends or just flat with a bolt through them.(at the rear axle)

1924 superior has front springs with nine leaves..

But the manual lists also eleven under the heading "superior" front spring (without a year)

1924 superior has rear springs wth 10 leaves with rolled eye for bushes for TOURING, TOURING CHASSIS and Fisher coupe... and eleven leaves for FISHER SEDAN, with rolled eye in the axle end.

BUT also list the following under the heading "REAR SPRING superior."

11 leaves.. superior touring,touring chassis. fisher sedanette and coupe.

9 leaves... superior roadster,and fisher coupe

12 leaves.. superior Fisher Sedan.

the above 3 sets are flat at the rear axle mounting and do not
have the rolled eye for the bushing.

1923 superior spring are not include as we have already ruled that year out.

Hope this helps!!
Jack

Good Morning, Jack!

Both frame's rear springs have the rolled, bushed eyes. It looks like "The Rock", then, is from a 1924 Superior Touring, Touring Chassis, or Fisher Coupe. Thanks! That helps.

In the meantime I can't find the springs from "the hard place" but the disc wheels seem to limit it to a DeLuxe Touring or DeLuxe Sedan and (just guessing here) maybe a DeLuxe Touring Chassis if there was such a critter.

In the meantime I've got both frames apart and plan to use the best parts to make one frame. I thought the rails were pretty straight until slapping the best pair back-to-back and seeing a 3/4 inch gap between them! They're now over at the only shop in my Yellow Pages that advertises under "Frame Repair". Second generation, same location since 1968. The owner took me for a quick tour- something newer shops would probably claim their insurance doesn't allow. Among other things they're working on restoration of a two-seat Buick roadster with straight eight, probably a 140 inch wheelbase, and one of those real cool marks of a certain era- the little doors behind the seat for stowing your golf bag! I think I can trust them with my frame.

Thanks again!

Kenneth