VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 unknown frame

The pile of prewar car parts in the pictures concists pieces that my father has collected since 1970's they are not anyhow related to each others. Wooden wheels are you see are from the Buick -27. The whole front axle is there. The Ford parts are not a problem I have a complete -26 T-ford under construction, so I know the parts well. Actually I have three bodies to -26 T in that carrage. The frame is the big question mark. The Chevy front axle with the wheel in not from the same car that the frame. I found that front axle from the local metal recycling centre some years ago. They were going to make kettles out of it.

About the measures, I managed to measure approximate wheelbase. It is 279cm, which is about 109-110 inches. Measuring is problematic, since the rear leaf springs are not present, an I cannot determine the actual location of the rear axle. The measure is from the highest point of the rear arch to the front axle connecting point in the front spring.

Risto Nurmi
Oulu, Finland

Thanks, my '26 measures a 124" there.
I have been working on a list of models from Chevy and GMC per year, not complete, probably not correct , but the Gents here will correct me I'm sure.
It gives you an idea what direction you should be looking.

Of course my Excel sheet doesn't come over as it does in Excel :(

Year Model / Series GMC Chevrolet Wheel Base (Inches)
1918
490 102
K-16 132
K-21 unknown
K-23 aviation truck unknown
K-71 unknown
K-101 unknown
"FA2" (Royal Mail) 108
"T" 125
1919
490 102
K-16 132
K-21 unknown
K-71 unknown
K-101 unknown
"FA2" (Royal Mail) 108
"T" 125
1920
490 102
K-16 132
K-71 unknown
K-101 unknown
"FB2" (Royal Mail) 110
"T" 125
1921
490 102
"FB2" (Royal Mail) 110
"G" 120
"T" 125
1922
490 102
"FB2" (Royal Mail) 110
"G" 120
"T" 125
1923
B 103
B 103
D 120
K-16 132
K-41A/B 146/158
K-71A/B unknown
K-101A unknown
1924
F 103
H 120
K-16 132
K-41A/B 146/158
K-101A unknown
1925
K 103
M 120
R 124
K-16 132
K-17 136
K- 32 154
K-41A/B 146/158
1926
V 103
X 124
K-17 136
K-32 154
K-102A 160
K-52A/B 146/158
1927
AA 103
LM 124
K-17 136
K-32 154
K- 52A/B/C 146/158/193
K-72A/B 160/184
K-102A/B 160/184
1928
AB 107
LP 124
LO  124
T-20/20C 132/150
T-40 unknown
T-50 unknown

I've been trying to fing images of 20's car parts from the internet, but all that is available are pictures of complete cars. Of course, if you are looking for pictures of "Henrys products", there is a lot of material. Now I'm turning my eyes into another GM product, Pontiac. The 110" wheelbase and the fact that the fuel tank filling cap is at the right side of the rear panel, matches at least with 1929 Poncho.



However, I have not been able to find a picture, which would show, whether the Pontiac frame has this odd notch right in front of the front spring rear hinge. Such a notch should be a distinct indicator, since I have not seen it much.



I looked for Pontiac-Oakland club website, but it is for members only. I know this is a bit off topic, but the principal idea here is to build a Chevy four. Now I need to identify this to be able to sell it, or rather swap it to -28 Chevy frame.

Risto Nurmi
Oulu, Finland

Have you tried PONTIAC-OAKLAND CLUB INTERNATIONAL? They used to have a forum. Also try: http://forums.aaca.org/

David

Thanks, Let's see what we find from there.

Weeks have gone, nothing has appeared. This one is harder than I thought.

Risto Nurmi
Oulu, Finland

Someone here gives this advice:
Rizhto,I'd follow Geoff's advice to save hassles with your registration authorities,stamp either an engine number or some other part number on the chassis somewhere.

If this was in Norway the Chevrolet Club here would strongly advice NOT to do it. We would help to persuade the authorities to accept that the ID plate/chassis # does not exist. And we do not recommend selling papers to change identities of the cars, nor allowing such trading on our web site.

We are very much dependent of the present trust we are given by the traffic road authorities. We have to come up with information as correct as possible to earn this trust, folks. It is much better to have faith and tell the truth (I do not know the IDnumber, but it is likely to be XBAB 0000 as it most certainly is a 1928 model). Do not make a "dirty" trick telling a fake story, which may be discovered later as untrue. That story can easily be passed on (as a good one twisting the law) by anyone hearing it. Suddenly it is coming to the surface.

The final result could be a disaster if our authorities could or (worse)would not rely on our information or our acts in the future, due to our behaviour.

In our club we have two cars where you will find the chassis number stamped clearly in the right rear part of frame. One is assembled in Copenhagen in 1928 and one in Karlsruhe in 29, so such examples exist.

So, please, if it is possible, let us help you to convince your
domestic authorities that this is what you think it should be, after severe and thoroughful research.

Wish I could find the details of the GM GmbH '29 for my database...code XF by the way.

In answer to GMCCORKELLE's suggestion that Aus. Chevs, had no chassis number. I'm not sure about the earlier models, but 27 and 28 models do have chassis numbers. Most are located on the top of the chassis rail beside the petrol filler, some are stamped in the middle of the dash on the passengers side (I can supply photos of these two if required) and some on the folded under bottom edge of the dash.
My 28 2 door (imported Fisher body) was registered with the number on the aluminium tag on the firewall. This tag is very similar to Vin tags of all the Holden cars from the 50's to the early 80's. Not sure about trucks as I haven't studdied these, although I do have few of the large brass ID plates from various Chev trucks
Of course I'm only referring to Aus. Chevs
Chris

Thanks for the supporting comments Solan, and don't worry, although I am aware of the existing paper business, I am not supporting it. The reason, why I'm asking so many questions and so anxiously, is my willingness to do things legally and correctly. This chat has already given enough information to show that Chevy fours doesn't necessarily have stamped frame number, and cars are most likely been registered by engine number. To verify this, my uncle has a 1927 engine and the original registration papers for it, which show that the car has been registered by engine number in 1927. This will be enough for officials to register the car, but the problem appeared to be the fact that my frame is not a Chevy. I'm still suggesting Pontiac, but I have not seen an image that would show similar notch in the frame just blow the engine. See the picture above.
The building of the prewar car beging with the big piece-collecting-project here. The reason is that right after the war there was a lack of everything and majority of the prewar cars were worn out and then dismantled for other purposes. Engines for local use or boats, axles and frames were turned into tractor trailers, steel plates were opened like tincans and used for fixing the roof etc. Some of course survived, but they have been rebuilt since 1970's and those few that are still somewhere hidden into barns are real rarities.
So, there is no such thing as complete car in the beginning and finally, when the car is been built and ready we can only quess, of how many separate cars have the parts from in this finnished indiviual? This emerges a question of ethics. Finally the identity of the car is determined by the id papers, frame number to be exact, although the frame beam might be the only part originally from the identified vehicle. This is not done to mislead the authorities, but that was just the only part preserved, the starting point of the project.

You might ask, where I'm heading at? Nowhere, I'm just making the context more understandable and also giving some thoughts to think at.

Risto Nurmi
Oulu, Finland

The overall rule here was that all Chevy vehicles from 1918? to 1936? had a data ID-plate fastened to the firewall in the engine room or on the dash). This makes it easy to switch identities, etc. and sell the ID plate and papers. Still we are fighting such behaviour. We have also asked the car magazines not to allow such ads on their pages at all. Except for some forum pages most people here stay away from official trading of IDs, as most enthusiasts want to do the hobby legally.

Much due to the WW-II and the lack of spares,running vehicles and the restrictions to allow importing new cars for many years thereafter the situation both in Denmark, Finland and Norway must have been almost the same difficulty. So they had to combine what they could find usable and working. We know a lot saved registration fee and taxes by moving the data ID-plate from one to another car.

But that is also known to the traffic authorities and they accept our explanations when the information is well documented here in Norway. Luckily we have acted for a long time in such manner that we have the support from the authorities, even when we are not able to get a full documentation of the car's ID.

May be you could ask the Swedish or the US Pontiac club: http://biphost.spray.se/pontiacklubben/

http://www.poci.org/Contact_Us.cfm if they can help you.

Perhaps this as well? http://www.pontiacregistry.com/

I really hope we can manage to solve this ID-question so you will be able to register the car easy when ready.

The Swedish Poncho folks seem not to respond to my emails, bity. And the Pontiac forum required registration, where they asked, which Pontiac i drive. Naturally I could not answer and proceed. There must be a way to join the forum wihtout buying a Pontiac (although there is a nice 1950 Silver straight eight on sale at the local sales forum), but my knowledge wasn't enough. My uncle promised to discuss with the Chevy four enthusiast he knows for the frame and other parts. Let's see what we found from there.

Send a gentle inquiry to the clubs and they will normally be willing to help you. The Swedes are only preserving the 49 - 59, but the US should be able to help.

Hello

I managed to find a half a frame. It is a front end that has been cut from around the front seat. I added a couple of links to the pictures from the large collection, which might include some parts for Chevy four. Look ecpecially for the frame picture. I'd like to know whether these are from Chevy. The collection belongs to family of resently deceased singer and a car enthusiast, who collected cars and parts for decades. There are hundreds of pictures from the collection to be seen in the internet. The family has informed that they will sell some of the material to the enthusiast, who actually need them. Hence I'd like to get information about these pictures. I'm especially looking for -28 parts, but for speedster they can be from other models as well.

frame
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/laanilta/laani190906/?action=view&current=P9190035.jpg
rearend
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/laanilla/?action=view&current=P5250154.jpg
firewall
http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b228/laani3/?action=view&current=131.jpg
wheel
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/laanilta/Ladosta/?action=view&current=Ladosta152.jpg

By the way, Poncho clubs have not replied to any of my reguests, so if anybody knows or founds pictures of the late late 20's-early 30's Pontiac frame, please let me know.

Risto Nurmi
Oulu, Finland

Hi folks!

I've been of for a while, and the reason is that we had a baby girl last friday. Now we are a real family: two kids and a mortgage. Only a golden retriever and a estate Volvo are missing.

On topic, the frame was a 27/28 Pontiac after all. An Aussie buddy recognized it by HAMB forum. (Shall be swapped for -28 Chevy parts, preferably in Fennoscandia only )

Hello from Norway.

Lots of cheers and congratulations to your Finnish family!

I was thinking you could call or better email Jon S. Braaten in Minnesund. He is a TA in CCON, but not for older cars. But he loves Pontiacs, and may have some pictures of frames, or perhaps know what you have got at home.

Here is the email: masjsb@online.no You also could call him afterwards. You find the phone # on our web site, the membership pages under TA.

Good baby nursing and good hunting!

:vcca:
:vcca: