VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions VCCA Libaray

Well, it seems to me is the key issue, both positive and negative.
Some members are very much against any disclosure of the Club's data beyond the "Responsible' or need to know basis.
While others see a great benefit in having all kinds of personal data and as much as possible on every member in an open access able site for every ones beck and call.

The finite boundaries and limitations of the accessible data is a large issue.

So Mr Mack let me ask you this; is the club roster that was just distributed considered a disclusure of the clubs data? Are we sure everyone who got one is as responsible as you would like? All the AACA would need is a Name, membership number, expiration date, and address. Have any of the many clubs who shared their collection with the AACA have reported any problems with their membership information that you know of? I have heard of none
John

John, not by me, as I realize it may as well be a public record ,even though it's mailing is to members only.

The data base would more than likely contain more than the fields published, if it didn't contain more info than the 2005 Directory, why go to the trouble of building a data base?

just use the 2005 Directory information, it is already compiled and printed.

Data I would expect to be included into a professionally created database would include:

Name, address of member, spouse, or significant other
Date member joined VCCA
Dues paying record, check, money order or credit card, type and number
Telephone numbers
email address, web page
activity and site I.D for VCCA sites
Date & amount of dues paid
Items purchased
Regions currently and past the member belongs to and has belonged to
Regional and National Offices held
Awards earned
Meets and Tours attended
Year and models of vintage Chevrolets, States registered, Proof of Insurance for each car

This is the data many members are afraid will be included into a data base and that data would be distributed and available to anyone with an internet connection along with other organizations like the AACA, Etc., etc.,.

The members should have the complete information of everything item to be included into any database and time for discussion should be allowed and also comments received should be published in the G&D and presented at a meeting of the Members, before the Board makes a committment of club funds and contracts to an outside firm to build the database. (In my humble opinion)

MrMack obviously you and many other members don't understand that a database can be built so that any given field (a specific piece of data like: phone number or membership number or zip code or ?) can be controlled so only a limited number of people can even see it. It can be also limited so the data cannot be copied electronically. 128-bit encryption, passwords, etc. can be used to thwart the hackers and prohibit unauthorized access. It can be as secure (or probably more) as your bank records, medical records, social security number and other sensitive information.

There is no reason to fear that a properly designed and protected database will in any way compromise any member data. If all the AACA would need is name, membership number and part of the address then those fields can be all that they can see. If a credit card is used then only a portion of the address is needed to verify the person asking for a service (copying, research, etc.) is indeed the person that the credit card is issued to. The hard copy that was recently mailed is much less secure than the electronic database.

The benefits of an electronic database far outstrip any negatives. It permits the VCCA to offer services to members only dreamed about today. How about discounts on any parts you purchase for your old Chevy from participating vendors? How about sending emails or private messages to all the owners of similar old Chevys requesting specific information to help you repair or restore your vehicle?

Mr Mack, I don't want this to stray off the topic. The data would change daily with expirations and new members, that is why it would need to be active. The bottom line is if we were to use the AACA or anyone else as a service they would need to know who was a member to offer the service to, and not all of the other information that you are concerned about. Lets keep this one on track,
later, John

Well , You are wrong, Chipper, I do understand all that information you wrote. This is exactly what should be published in order to assure the general membership that the database isn't a bad thing.

Why not outline and publish, get discussion and comments from the members, since they will be the ones paying the bill, exactly what will be placed in the database, explain what will be available for access and the levels of availabilty, for the Executive committee, the membership secretary, The webmaster, the Region officers, the other clubs, interested vendors, and the members themselves. Etc., Etc. before committing us and our money? and It is your and other's opinion as to the benefits, consider the benefit to the 80% of the membership that is satisfied with the present status. Their main expectations is to get the G&D in time to get some of the parts as advertized before someone else does.....nothing more, nothing less.the present and past "Powers That Be" that have been in control, appeared to me to be operating the VCCA like a mushroom farm, need I explain?

And John You are right this should be a discussion about the VCCA Libaray, not that I nor many other members have ever been exposed to anything that resembles a VCCA Libaray or that part of VCCA.
I wonder who brought the Database issue into the discussion anyway? I would be delighted to have a database and a VCCA Libaray to access with my computer.

I am concerned with the actual cost and the limititations and levels of accessability that will be available, and wish to have all the information in order that I can actively support the proposed database. The more iformation that is released should increase its support among the club's members

Hey John and other Board members,
Does the VCCA have a written disclosure policy? Is it distributed to members? I have never seen one and if I am not mistaken it is required by Federal law. Might want someone to check into it same as the conflict of interest and other potential problems disclosed in another forum.

You guys need to read these posts....

John indiated all the AACA needed was,

Not all that crap Mack suggested in his post of 808pm!! Was that supposed to be a joke??

John further indicated it needed to be an "active" database. That obviously precludes using the "new" directory we just received.

Bill.

Mr Mack, Yes I did bring up the data base only to point out that it is a glitch if we were to use the AACA service and that was all. Concerns are valid and good to have about cost, but we need to trust the people who did the research. Chip as far as the disclosure policy I have never seen one since you left the Board.
John

John in order to trust the people that did the research, full disclosure of their project is in order, Where and when.

Bill 42, What you say doesn't make much sense,I was talking about the entire database that we need. Yes I was thinking a little ways past the Library. any database worth having and worth buying for $20,000 should have enough data in it to constitute a worth while effort, otherwise it is merely a list which is what we have now. besides a membership Secretary could and should be updateing the list. Otherwise who would have the data to input? Do we need a membership Secretary and also a database Secretary? Probably so.

Mack,
Maybe you and a couple of other members would like to volunteer to be on the technology committee or the committee that is working on the business process (database is one of their projects). As I am sure you are well aware communicating "all the details" to the membership is fraught with problems. It too often results in "nit picking" and soon focuses on minute details and not the overall situation. That is why we have developed the "representative" system that governs all of us at nearly all levels of society.

To get too many involved approaches a committee of the whole which historically gets NOTHING productive done just polarizes people. Groups of more than 7 persons are inefficient and the more people added the more inefficient they become. That is part of the problem with the VCCA Board. 18 members are way too many.

I as well as all Board Members are well aware of the personal identity theft, scams, con-games and other illegal activities that seem to be gaining each day. Security of membership data has and will continue to be a priority with the VCCA. Even publishing the roster every five years is a compromise that has so far proved to be worth the risk. Maybe not in the future.

A summary article in the G&D on the database and what the Board is considering maybe a good idea. But then we need to be prepared to deal with what ever emerges. Personal opinions are most often based on incomplete and erroneous information and irrational thinking (often based on emotion not logic).

An article in the G&D requesting more participation by members also might be a good idea. We constantly need legal and other expert advice that I am sure some members are qualified and willing to provide. If they don’t know about the need we can’t expect them to know to volunteer. And without knowing the skills of each member we can’t know whom to ask.

I have said all along that we have way to many board members running the VCCA. Chipper, Just as you say, To many committee people causes problems. I would bet that If we had half as many board members,That things would be alot better In the running of the club. Cost wise and productive wise. I think the VCCA Is not big enough to have so many board members.

For getting into the AACA library could we use the membership card that is issued to members each year; presenting a current card would be proof that you are a valid member.

The card might have to be upgraded somewhat to be more tamper-proof, but then again are there a lot of bad people wanting to break into the AACA library?

Some of us are members of the AACA also so these members of course would not have any problems.

NCRS has 9 elected board members. From my experience as its President in the early 90's, there were times when i could have gotten along real well without a couple of the 9. Agree with Chipper and Don that 18 VCCA board members way too many. mike

It has been 12 years since I visited the AACA Library for a few days of research, but I don't remembering being asked for my AACA membership card? According to its website the only benefit a AACA member gets is paying $25 an hour verses $30 an hour for its research services. To dublicate paper copies it cost 30 cents per copy, and they will only mail them to you. Scaned images sent by email is not availble. In order to view the marque club's files that are stored in the basement they might require a current club ID card. About 10 years ago I spent less than an hour looking through the VCCA library and it appears to me that there is very little that is in the VCCA library that is not already in the AACA library - or for that matter in the Detroit Library. The VCCA library is more suitable as an archive that the editor can have available for filling up the G&D pages with reprinted Chevrolet literature, when members don't submit stories for the month. I don't believe is is worth the expense of shipping it back to the AACA library and then paying them $100 a month storage fee.
KenK

The current contents of the VCCA library is only a small part of the overall situation. The fact that significant literature collections containing materials that are not in any presently available library will be subject to dispersal all too soon. The available libraries include the AACA, Detroit, Philadelphia and other facilities with automotive literature collections.

Many of these collections will end up in the members estate where they are more likely viewed as to their monetary worth not historical significance. If the VCCA does not do something different and do it fast then these collections are very likely lost forever to VCCA members. I have talked personally to four long term VCCA members about their extensive literature collections, the shame of breaking them up and what plans they have for the future. All desire the collections to be preserved. They all spent a lot of time and money to put the collections together and see dispersal as a "crying shame". With that being true, none of them is seriously considering donating even a significant part of their collections to the VCCA. They all expressed the desire for the VCCA to establish a library with the commitment, backing, structure that would convince them that it was safe to entrust their collections.

Ken I am sure you know all of the members that I talk about and may have had conversations with some of them as I have. Do you want their collections to be lost, dispersed or otherwise out of the control of the VCCA? I doubt it, but without the insistance of influential members and prompt action of the BOD that is exactly what is fixin to happen.