VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions The real China syndrome?

Sorry Macky Wacky....but you are in a class all by yourself!

Tell me why anyone would want a car when they can have a full size Chevrolet truck.

You sit up above the rest on the highway. You get immediate attention when you pull up at the RITZ.(they think you are sombody) You can always carry a load. You can burn rubber if you want. You are safer than in most cars. You have better heat and air than a car. And you don't have to be pretentious and stick up your nose.(unless you want to)

I love my truck!

MrMack,

Please pass along my THANKS to the boys(men)at Fort Hood. Once, was one of my old stomping grounds.

Hey John Gill,

Is this your full size truck?? I bet they say Mr.Gill when you roll up to the RITZ in this one.


Happy Thanksgiving,

BigBob , Talk about a nasty BACKFIRE!

That I will RAY!

OH NO! They have done it now! the GM corporate deer stand.

What the H*!l is that???

:confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused:

Bill.

a redneck deer stand made out of a you-know what!When you see a Tundra deer stand then GM has something to worry about!

That truck cab kinda sorta looks like a F0RD. :confused: :confused:

JYD,

I thought it was a F0RD. It isn't??

Sure looks like a F0RD to me......but I think that Macky Wacky is convinced that it is a GM product instead. :eek: :eek:

Toyota has fewer than 500 retired employees in the US; GM has over 400,000. $1500 added to each new GM vehicle to pay for retired workers' benefits.

On a side note which was news to me maybe not to you guys in the know, but I did not know until yesterday that CITGO was owned by the Venezuelan government!

So what are you trying to say they should have no benefits? Or maybe not retire and just work untill they die? The $1500 per car is a B.S. figure, what if they sell less cars? or more? A friend of mine and fellow VCCA Member is a part owner of a GMC dealership, they spent $8000 for a balloon replica of an Envoy to fly above the Nassau Coliseum before Islander games. How much did GM pay to place billboards all over the World Series "per car" Those are just figures are put out to remove any sympathy from the workers that the public might feel. Why is it the employees fault that the pension was mismanaged? The people who really suffer are the ones we don't hear about who's income relies on the plants employees spending money in the town, like the all of the small shops.

It's a complex "problem."

It's a complex world.....

Whether Gator likes it or not, it almost doesn't matter that he lives in Gatorsville. The truth is he's living in a global economy. And that isn't really anything new. We were 'trading' with the French during the Revolutionary War. And shortly after that 'we' were importing literally slave labor from Africa.

It does seem like things are a bit out of hand these days. My sympathy goes to the workers. If a 'working stiff' loses 1/2 of what he's got he's really hurting. If a CEO-type multi-millionaire guy loses 1/2, he may have to adjust; but at least he's got a chance.

Bill.

MMMM....Well You know I didn't look that close, I always see Chevrolets, I was thinking a 55-59 but something about the windshield and vent windows jest don't look right since several of you mentioned it......Come to think of it, you don't really think a good old Chevy Redneck guy would do that to a perfectly good cab offen a Chevy, do you? I hope not!

Run Bambi Run!!!

Shame on you Mackus Wackus......thinking that a F0RD is a Chevrolet! Look at the back slope of the cab and the front windshield with the eyebrow. Those are dead giveaways that this puppy ain't no Chevrolet.

I don't know if the GM pension plan went bad or not. A deal is a deal, When a employee is promised a pension that plan must be honored. I figure that the number crunchers are wageing a campaign to get out of a deal. American buyers don't care what happened in the past. "I never owned a slave" "I don't think it is unpatroic to buy a foreign car" "Everyone for their own selves"
Ben Franklin once said. We must hang together to oppose tyranny or we surely will hang seperately" ...or words to that effect.
The ones I really feel for are our grandchildren, They may never even know what the American dream was all about...The way history is being rewritten. Americans drifting further apart as a political divide comes between the ethnic groups, the wealthy and the poor, the many self interest groups, it sounds like Rome in the 3rd and 4th centurys does it not?

It's hard to fathom how a guy could look at another guy and say what we "promised" you isn't going to happen.

That is really unbelievable.

I fear if enough of that happens in this country some of the ones who are on the wrong end of the deal are not going to take it laying down. That could lead to some really scary activity.

I sure as he!l don't know all the answers. But I think a good place to start is by "honoring" the agreement that was in effect. Maybe make changes from "this point forward." But that's for the future, it can't be retroactive.

Bill.

The good news-----and the bad news. Yes, you get your raise and all the benefits you requested, but the bad news is that the company is now bankrupt and you are out of a job.

John, I was making a comparison between the 2 companies and showing that GM is responsible for a lot more than Toyota; not a level playing field. It is like one family having 12 kids and another family with 1 kid, priories have to be different for each family.

Don’t know how you read into what I said that I wanted people to work until they die!!! And in my example above I am not saying the parents should not have children nor am I saying that the parents should leave their kids naked in the woods and go to Disney World.

Bill, just because governments and businesses trade and deal with other countries does not mean that I have to.IMHO, I am responsible for what I do; I do not control any businesses or any governments, (but I do vote every chance I get).

Just like belly buttons as free people you can have your opinion and be global, and I can choose not to be, as much as I can.

I don't think I will ever be comfortable buying from communist countries, just my opinion...

Per Gator's third line above, that's exactly right. And if enough people vote with thier feet AND with their pocketbooks, then you see governments, manufacturers, and retailers take notice.

Having invested 36 years with GM I have a lot rideing on the outcome of GM'S future. Don't be misled by the statistics about how GM once had 50 percent of the American market, and today it sits at less than 25 percent.GM only hit over 50 percent once (1962) and in that year we purchased only 8 million new vehicles. For the past few years we have bought close to 17 million cars annually; so GM is building approximately the same number of cars, give or take a few-but the auto industry has improved productivity so much it can build the same number of vehicles with half the workforce it once had. Just 10 short years ago GM employed almost 300,000 people in North America;today that number stands at 142,000 and will shortly take another major drop. Many of those workers today are in low cost overseas operations and Mexico. Yes GM has had excess manfacturing capabilities for many years and that has been addressed with the latest plant closeings.
On pension benefits: For the most part, pension funds are invested in our financial markets, so it seems unbelievable that from 1979,when the stock market was still under 900 (today it sits well over 10,000)any company could claim that its pension programs are bankrupt. Yet, though the auto industry has improved productivity so much that it can build the same number of vehicles with half the work force, while at the same time the stock market has gone up 1,200 percent-there's a problem paying the retirement pensions for those who've survived all the job cuts over the past 30 years.
Are we so complacent that we are resigned to see the decline of a once-dominant company that has contributed so much to our GNP? I won't defend the many bad decisions of GM'S management or every demand made by the union, but job losses at GM are part of the weakness of U.S. manfacturing that offers workers decent wages and benefits.

GM capital investment in the US from 1999-2003 is $20 billion. Toyato, Honda, and Nissan have less than that combined for years 1980-2003.
GM's contribution to the US GNP is 4 times that of Toyato.
Every day 1 million Americans earn their living by helping GM build cars and trucks. Toyota employs about 30,000 in the US.
In the Strategic Vision 2004 Quality study, GM and Nissan tied for first. 6 GM vehicles received top ratings. G6 top midsize car, Rainier top mid size utility, Sierra top HD pick up.
In the 2004 JD Power award GM ranked second in overall sales satisfaction. All GM divisions ranked higher than Toyota and Honda.
The 3 top North American plants rated in 2005 by JD Powers in initial quality are all GM.

DD

DD and others,
How do the working conditions, wages, benefits,etc. at Honda(US) and Toyota(US) and others
compare with the same for GM workers? Pensions?

dandyd,

Some of you guys amaze me with the debth of your knowledge. (compliment)

I worked for a labor union for several years.

Then I became a criminal investigator and learned to wade through B---S--- and get to the crust of the matter.

My belief is that retirement plans went south in the 1980's at the same time Sears & Roebuck's and Flour Drilling's retirement plans were raped of employee contributions.

These rapes were allowed because of a new federal law which allowed companies to use employee retirement funds for company uses.

Flour Drilling is my example because at that time they had the top rated retirement fund and Sears & Roebuck have never been the same since.

Enough!

It truly is amazing how much info some of the guys in here have. Lots more than "just" cars.

Really interesting and informative.

Bill.