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Thanks for the info Walt, that sounds right about the oil capacity and paint scheme...

Gator, don't get too excited about the Engine color, Ray calls it "Correct Engine color" but the verdict is still out, half of the jury is not convinced that the O.D. color is correct!

At the risk of getting my toes stepped on, I'm going to wade into this discussion on engine component colors.

Rocker Cover Color: I'm really confused on this issue. Originally, during restoration of my '28 Roadster, I painter the rocker cover the same as the engine. The judges didn't like that so I painted a second unit black which hasn't drawn a point deduction since. My feeling is that it should be engine color. I say this because in my parts stash I have two extra covers that appear to be original with engine color green paint still remaining over what appears to be a black base under coat.

Spark Plug Wire Carrier: My belief it that these "L" shaped box style wire carriers were painted Black. I have three spares on the shelf that are all black and appear to be original.

Intake Manifold: I believe the one pictured is incorrect in color and should be Black. Here I have six spares and each one is Black and appear to be original.

Air Cleaner Color (part of earilier discussion and not shown here): I have two spares, both painted engine green, one with partial remains of the original decal. Here again, I painted my air cleaner black during restoration and the judges didn't like it, so I repainted it engine color without point deduction since.

Other 1928 Engine Dress items that I believe were originally painted black: Starter, Generator and its pivot and adjustment brackets. Oil filler tube and cap. Crankcase breather tube. Engine fan blade.

Body Firewall color: After looking at many 1927 and 1928 vehicles over the years, my belief is that all Closed cars had the "Front of Dash" or "Firewall" painted black while all oven cars were body color. I think the closed vehicle issue is easy to decide because there are still a large number of unchanged vehicles out there to view. In the case of the open cars, the arguement will continue. I've had repeated discussions with Bob Hensel on this issue since the Judging Books that he made up, with the help of many others, to point out "vehicle correctness items for judging purposes", states that all '27 and '28 vehicles had the Firewall painted black.

Vacuum Tank Tee: The vacuum tank tee arrangement shown in the picture isn't only incorrect for the Touring, it's incorrect for the '28 closed car as well. Not trying to pick it apart, but just pointing out the fact so others won't follow suit and alter their vehicles in a similar fashion. The fuel feed line to the vacuum pump appears to be a copper replacement and it is missing the anchor strap to the firewall (note the hole at outer end and slightly above the firewall lower reinforcement rib). My '27 coupe and my current '28 Cabriolet have steel lines, while my '28 Roadster has a brass seamed tube.

There, that should be enough controversy for one day. I don't consider myself an authority on any of these items listed above and I have no axe to grind one way or the other. My reasoning is to generate discussion based upon what I've observed or learned over the years so we might come to some agreement on how Chevrolet delivered one small segment of their product line. We will probably never get it totally correct because I believe in the early years Chevrolet Assembly Plant managers were given a lot of latitude on how they did things and what materials they used for assembly at different plant locations.

Yes - I suspect the AC Flint Plant painted all its '27-'28 Air Cleaners for Chevrolet this Olive Drab color -at least every original air cleaner I have seen!

The question is - did the Flint Engine Plant #4 paint its enginies the same O.D. color that AC used?

I have seen a photo of a 1917 490 engine that Dan Johnson in Washington owns that still shows how the ehgine serial # was painted in yellow on the front left of the crankcase - with the oriiginal O.D. paint still on this engine.
KenK

Oldie, thanks very much for your input on this,

Seems to me that some members of VCCA believe one way and others believe another way.

It is not the loudest and most persist group that is "correct" in all instances, and just because one vendor sells the "correct" color doesn't mean their version is "correct" in all respects.

Untill a time machine is invented, or a truly "Certified and documented un-disturbed original car is unearthed somewhere this controversity on engine colors and other really insiginificant items will not be resolved to everyones satisfaction.

I would like to thank all you guys for the comments, but it appears my assistant has already done that, so we will just forge on.

Class, I think we will wind up this colorful discussion (again, pun intended) with a single post that will attempt to record in one spot all of the engine compartment color information for the 1928 passenger car (National). Just to set the record straight, the Roadster body and the Touring body were produced by Chevrolet. Fisher produced all closed bodies. This fact may explain some differences in how items were painted.

In the way of discussion it appears that a major deviation in paint color schemes has occurred with the air cleaner. It appears that the air cleaner was ORDERED from AC prepainted engine color. Then, does it also appear that they ordered the oil filter painted black and both units sporting the AC decals?

Gas line, I have two Oakland cars and both have copper gas lines. Is this subject still open or does it depend upon assembly plant and body manufacturers?

Although not discussed yet, what color do we want to paint the transmission and bell housing (clutch housing)?

So I am going to close this post and open another and attempt to list the items and proper colors.

Short recess students and back into your seats.

The following is intended to be a list of the engine compartment items and the colors they should be painted. In the case of engine color this is defined as a Gray/Green color. All other colors are defined as black. I can edit this post at any time, so, if you have information on a specific item, post it and this MASTER post will be updated.

Engine block: Engine color
Head, less rocker shaft, rockers and push rods: Engine color
Pan/Sump: Engine color
Timing gear cover: Engine color
Crank pulley: Engine color
Water pump: Engine color
Water outlet: Engine color
Front cover to flywheel: Engine color
Valve cover: Black (Edited 4Nov02 This item begs for additional input to include assembly plant or other documentation)(Edited 5Nov02 '28 TA says Black)
Spark plug “L” cover: Black
Spark plug wires: Black
Fan: Black (Edited 3Nov02)
Hoses: Black (Edited 5Nov02)
Fan Belt: (Looking for more input)

Driver’s side:

Generator and all braces and brackets: Black
Cutout: Black
Oil filler tube and cap: Black
Draft tube (from block to back side of carburetor): Black
Carburetor: Black except for the bowl and nut
Intake manifold: Black
Choke support: Black
All linkage such as throttle and spark: Black
Oil lines to filter and oil gage: Copper?
Vacuum tank: Black
Steering column and box: Black
Pre-heat tube: Natural (cad/tin ?)
Dipstick: Black
Splash pans: Black
Horn: Black
Fan shroud: Black

Passenger’s side

Exhaust manifold: Black (Edited 3N0v02 Questioned if it were in fact painted)
Distributor: Black
Coil and stand: Black
Oil filter, holder and band: Black (Edited 4Nov02 to specify oil filter)
Preheat stove: Black (Edited 3Nov02 Questioned if it were painted)
Engine side covers (Pushrods): Engine color
Splash pans: Black
Elbow in the lower radiator hose: Black
Rod from firewall to top of radiator: Black

Now the big one: Firewall and specify closed or open
(Edited 5Nov02 Based on the answer from the '28 TA the firewall is body color on the open cars.)

Input please and let’s see if we can clean this list up and perhaps make agreement.

Oldie and Ray,.....
I have no trouble with either Oldie or Ray's schemes, just a couple or so things:
Fan black?
Sparkplug wires should be black rather than the Manila color with tracer threads (which I paid a premium price for,to get rid of the too new black wires like on the 53)?

And why paint the exhaust mainfold or heat box attached to the exhaust pipe near the manifold? This is a practical question since the car will be driven several times and miles to the show, or should one paint the exhaust items after arriveing on the judgeing field?

also is the carb CI body to be painted black or natural CI gray I assume we are not allowing for any repairs to be made,since this is as off the showroom floor state of condition?

Ray,

I'm assuming that your last posting is a summary of all the various engine paint combinations based upon the input to this thread.

I'm still unsure as to what color the rocker cover should be, engine color or black? It would be nice if Walt D would enter into this discusion.

Like MrMack, I'm doubtful that Chevrolet would have painted the exhaust mainfold or pre-heater portion of the exhaust take-down pipe, knowing that paint on those areas would last only a short time.

The remainder of the areas listed seem appropriate to me. We all paint the casting portion of our 4 cylinder carburetors these days using a hi-gloss black. I suspect that Chevrolet left them unpainted or used a lesser quality paint originally.

Hi All

I need to provide my input to this chat. I have a 28 four door. In the last 27 years I have acquired three motors. The original one in the car and two spares. In all three cases, the rocker cover was painted ENGINE color (grey/green). It was very noticable on the underside where it was NOT subjected to the elements and was probably coated with oil to which we realize now was a protection over the years.

I also question the intake manifold color. Put yourself in the position of the assembly line workers. It was probably easier to bolt up the intake and then give the motor a shot of paint. Unless someone has documentation as to the specific assembly line procedure/sequence. And the discussion continues!!!

mromano

mromano, I believe, what this all boils down to is the fact that undisputed documentation does not exhist for the current subject, 1928 engine and engine compartment paint colors and schemes. Your statement about having bought 3 engines during the last 27 years adds to the current knowledge, however it does leave 47 years to be documented for what happened to those engines . I would hope a more definitive documentation will be uncovered by those doing the research.

Just to throw in a little more trivia. How many know that the original radiator hoses (all three) were black with the trademark logo stamped into the rubber. (CHERVOLET in block letters surrounded by the the BOWTIE) I have two originals from a 15 mile documented 2 door (coach) I have also observed these same type hoses on a documented 9000 mile utility chassis. Great ain't it!!
Further the fan belt was reddish orange in color and the plug wires were black rubber with hard wire. The fuel line to vacuum tank was brass with a seam and tin coated, bolted to the firewall (dash). I have several of these brass fuel lines, however, they had a tendency to crack, so obviously they were replaced.

Walt: That was interesting about the radiator hose with the Chevrolet logo being used in 1928, because 1929 thru 1932 also used a black radiator hose with the Chevrolet logo on it as well. The logo was yellow and I have an original hose in my collection with the Chevy logo.

Question about these original black hoses: often, you see early cars with the red hoses, and sometimes the belt(s).

For what early Chevrolets are the red hoses correct?

I have never run into a vendor that has these.

Walt, thanks for this information, I saw some rubber hoses on Ebay porported to be for GM vehicles 192x thru 193x "the same as original" that were hand wrapped RED rubber!
Is there someone that has a rubber stamp that can be used to mark the logo , seems that someone remarked about "Useing or borrowing JYD's stamp"?

A late question:

Teacher, we are waiting for a report on the progress of the overhaul or rebuilding of the engine. Maybe you have been sidelined with another project?

And another, Would you clue us in as to the camera and techniques you have used to get these very good photos?

Hi Guys

I would love to see some pics of these hoses and belts. Any possibilities of this happening??

the discussion continues, ain't it great!

mromano

Some more input to the ”˜chart’ of paint colors for the engine compartment. I posed the question of valve cover color to the Technical Advisor for ”˜28. His answer was BLACK. I think I will go with the TA, after all, we should accept their answers after the big bucks we pay them.

Also ask about the firewall and the answer for OPEN cars was BODY COLOR.

Although we have not covered the radiator hoses, here is the skinny on that item. The picture below is a hose from my recently purchased ”˜28 Roadster. Notice it is a nice shade of BLACK, which was surprising to me. Almost everything I had looked at in the past was RED, however they did not have the markings on them. I think the picture answers the question on at least the ”˜28s as to the black color. Notice also the hose clamp. I expected the two-wire clamp. No question now. As to the fan belt, I don't have an answer for that one.



Behind schedule on the engine assembly. Will be back to it shortly. Don’t touch that dial.

As to the pictures posted. I suggest you contact your grandchildren for assistance in that department. In my case, I have the able assistance of 32confederate, better known as Bruce S. Deford. Thanks, Bruce.

Don't forget to go back and review the post: November 03, 2002 16:43 in this thread. It is edited as required.

Ray

Thanks so much for the continued info. I would like to raise another issue for discussion. I am concerned about the interior material. I mentioned it elsewhere on this board. The material covering the seats in my 28 is a codoroy which has a one wide and two narrow configuration. Hampton sells a material where the codoroy is all the same width and the color is dark green. I believe it should be an OLIVE color. Any discussion on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Also, what is the color/kind of paint used on the dash insert which holds the gauges/spedo/light switch. Is it some kind of crazy white/cream metal flake????

thanks much
mromano

Hi mromano,

Good questions, however they are beyond the scope of this thread. I suggest you pose these questions in the '12-'28 section and/or contact the '28 TA if you are a member of VCCA.

(1) Ok Teacher, as to asking my grandchildren about the photos. ....Should I ask the ones born in 1978 or the last one born in 1999? I have a Canon A1 from about 197? , However I am now useing a Sony Mavica FD83 that I have had several years, Your photos seem to have the same high quality as is seen with these digitial rigs.

(2) On the photo of the engine casting number the Casting number 348532 is followed with a dash and then a 4 is this common on your other 1928 engines and others you have observed? The reason for the questionis that my 28, the only one I have observed, does not have the dash and single digit after the 348532, and it has a casting date of B 25 8.
Ken K said your engine was the very earlyest one he had seen and it came from the Flint plant soon after it was turned into a Chevrolet Plant? Were all of the 28 engines cast in the Flint plant?

Ray et al.

I have more on the discussion of the rocker cover paint color. I was to the library at the AACA headquarters in Hershey and if you look at pg.38 of the Jan 5, 1928 issue of MOTOR AGE there is a picture of the engine/trans. THe rocker cover is definetly darker than the block, indicating the black rocker cover.

Another article I found which was not identified described and pictured a 28 four cyl. Again, the rocker cover is definitely much darker than the rest of the engine.

If you look at the Chevrolet service news bulletin Vol. 2 No.1 Jan 1928 there are three pictures of the motor/trans. One on page 8 on page 9 and page 12. On page 8 the cover looks like the same color as the engine. On page 9 it looks like it is darker. On page 12 it shows the car heater and you can see the cover which looks darker than the block.

Chevrolet service news Vol 2 No 9, Aug 1928, page 43 shows another picture of the "new" heater and the rocker cover looks like the same color as the block.

Chevrolet Service News Vol. 2 No10 Sept 1928, page 1 again shows the exhaust side of the motor and rocker cover looks like the same color as the block.

I am a VCCA member, in fact my VCCA number is 8927. I have been a member since the early 70's. I have observed and talked to many chev owners ( many of them who grew up with these cars) and It is amazing to talk about many of the same parts having slight changes in configuration (Like PAINT). So maybe the color of the rocker cover was changed during the build run??? I don't know but I am open to discussion.

mromano

mromano,
Your post is an example of exactly what we need more of on these questions. It presents facts with citation of the documentation. That way others can check the references for themselves. Inspection of "original" vehicles is also valuable and in some cases is accurate. But, in the intervening years changes by owners, dealers, repair shops can be done without us modern investigators knowing.

If more of us would do the research and share it with others then we could be more confident when we restore these old Chevys. An peer reviewed article in the G&D will assist VCCA members and can be a start to developing restoration manuals for these old Chevys.

MrMack,

Interesting observation on the casting number. I have checked all my other '28 engines and the one I am working on is the only block with the supplemental number.

I have been following this string with great interest. With respect to mromano's thoughts about possible changes during the model run on rocker cover color, perhaps I could contribute a thought.

Obviously, nothing better resolves such a question than the original documentation mromano references. Then again, as he points out, these very same information sources present conflicting information, thus his question about possible changes during the model run.

I am also a 30 year VCCA member. I am definitely no expert on "28s, never owned one (yet). Most of my cars have been 6 cylinder era cars. But I do pay pretty good attention.

But now I am nearing the end of a restoration on my '25 Roadster, and have learned a whole lot about 4 cylinders – and I love them!. The 1925 was the first year that rocker covers were standard equipment from the factory. Actually, on "25s there were 2 rocker covers: one for the front two cylinders, a small gap in the middle, and then a second identical cover for the rear two cylinders. This was the only year that used the two covers – obviously, they soon figured out that it was cheaper to do it with a single cover.

It is undisputed that the two covers in 1925 are BLACK. This is logical, since in this first year of being used, they would pretty likely have been added after the engine was assembled and painted. Therefore, this custom may have endured at SOME OF THE ASSEMBLY PLANTS for the following few years.

I think it is probably more likely that there is variation on this detail between assembly plants, than the idea of a mid-year change in practices at ALL assembly plants (although that is certainly a possibility). I know that in the 1925 model year, we find small variations between cars built at different plants. Let's face it, in the America of the 1920's, it was a long way from Janesville, WI to Oakland, CA to Cincinnati, OH! A hypothetical example: a plant manager in Oakland might run out of, say, aluminum running board trim. He couldn't get any from another plant for 2 weeks by train, and he didn't want to have his production line down, or be stacking up inventory that would have to be refitted. So, he found a local supplier to run off a two week supply of trim. It was “close enough” to use, but not quite exactly what was specified. So he used it.

Maybe he bought rocker cover stampings from a supplier that his plant had used for years, who learned to paint rocker covers black, in 1925. Maybe nobody ever told this supplier – “hey, we're switching to engine color paint this model year” – so they kept coming in black. (What color were '26 & '27 covers?)

I realize this is just speculation, but we do know that differences between plants exist, on detail items like this that don't really affect the car's marketability. It comes up all the time, especially in early production.

I agree completely with ChevyChip's post above, stating that what we need is “facts, with citation of the documentation”. And this post certainly does not fill that bill. But I think it is definitely possible that this uncertainty about rocker cover color may be a function of variation in practices at DIFFERENT PLANTS, or possibly a policy change during the year, as mromano originally suggested.

Hey Guru and others,
I might believe the black vs. engine color reasoning if the valve covers were supplied and installed at each assembly plant. However I have a major problem with that. I don't understand why the valve covers would not have been installed at the engine plant. Now I know that Flint built engines in that era and later and some were at least assembled in Canada. The question is "Were engines also assembled in other plants?".