VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1917-1923 - Models D, F, FA, and FB Only. Copper Cooled

What do we know about the copper cooled 1923 chev. Why recalled, how come no more than one exists, what did chevrolet do for the remainder of the 1923 production run.
How many Copper Cooled models were sold?

I think they worked out a deal and waited till the Corvair came out in 1960. Really I would reckon it was a good idea that didn't pan out. There is some information on the Internet just do a search.....

The legend I have heard is that Henry F**d acquired one and would not return it when they were recalled. He wanted to hold if over Chevrolet's head.

There are 2 1/2 cars still in existence. One is in Detroit in the F**D Museum. One is in Reno, NV in the Museum. A prominent Chevrolet collector has an engine. (The 1/2 as counted above.)

Several of the cars were sold and then bought back by Chevrolet. The problem was the small engine and the inability to get the copper to stick to the cast iron block.

Another major problem was the air flow. It was backwards and the faster you went the less air flowed.

And then there is the story of a barge load of the cars that sank in a storm in the Great Lakes. (In a program on the Discovery channel on Train Ferries, they have located one of the ferries and have gone down to view the trains. In one boxcar they discovered it was loaded with Nash vehicles.)

Not much literature exists on the air cooled cars. I have one brochure, of several pages, that does cover the air cooled.

AntiqueMechanic is right on. There isn't much literature on the Copper Cooled car. I have seen an original owners manual and an original "copper colored" bowtie emblem from the radiator shell. Very neat stuff!

In addition to the engines previously mentioned, there is also an engine at the Sloan Museum in Flint Michigan (complete with side covers) and a couple other engines have been seen over the years.

I have a GM picture of an engine being used in a tractor, and I know that some were used as stationary engines in factories.

Let me know if you are interested in any pictures of the engine. I also took a couple photos of the engine that the "prominent collector" has.

I have been to the Henry Furd Museum to see their car. They have it on display but don't say much about the engine. It just looks like another car. There are two stories of how the car got to the museum, one is that Henry bought it and would not return it, and the other is that Chevrolet donated the car to the museum in 1948.

The car at HFM has been the focus of multiple magazine articles over the years. The September/October 1975 issue of Special Interest Auto's also gave some performance numbers: 0-20mph 14.0 sec, 0-30 21.7 sec, 0-40 35.0 sec. Standing 1/4 mile in 41.2 sec @ 43mph. Top Speed of 45 mph. The engine was advertised at 22 hp, but the water sooled car was also rated at 22 hp and the car was claimed to be under-powered.

The Copper Cooled cars, also had a number of clutch and rear-end updates that did not appear on other Chevrolet's until the '25 model year.

I have been told that Ketterings original paperwork from the Copper Cooled project was donated to the General Motors Institute in Michigan. I have planned to make a trip to see what they have, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Anyways, the copper cooled car has been of great interest to me, and I have collected a number of articles on them. Interestingly, the '23 Dealers Manual does not mention the Copper Cooled cars.

Also (and take this for what it is worth), there is supposed to be a copper cooled sedan hiding in a garage somewhere in Northern Oregon or Southern Washington. Two VCCA members supposedly saw this car in its garage environment back in the 1970's and they swore that this car does exist. They both were knowledgeable about early Chevrolets and both individuals were credible.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

a few years back two vcca ta,s and myself and both ta,s are credible came upon a copper clad at a swap meet in oklahoma . it was used to pull a gen set it had delco on the gen set . later on i found out this was a common power plant . at the time we knew they were not on every street corner should have bought it . i look for it every year i go back . probally in some ones collection but you never know it may show up next year

http://www.mindspring.com/~corvair/cococo4.html

Jnolee, found this on the net. you may have found it on your own seach. INteresting thing I noticed is the add from a Canadian Farm paper of the period. It shows one set up as a Lead acid genset application. Notice the gas cells just off to the side of the add. OUr local historical preservation Town has a working Glass cell elecrtic system. Next time I'm there I'll have to pay attention to what's powering it.

The copper cooled block attached to a cast iron pan was used on a "Delco Remy Power Unit" (gen set). I don't know for sure if it used the recalled engines. I saw one at a Harrah's swapmeet just after seeing Harrah's Copper Cooled Coupe. The asking price was beyond reason.

headed to the oklahoma swap meet the copper clad may show up this year

Ron:
That link you posted (http://www.mindspring.com/~corvair/cococo4.html ) is no longer active. If it still exists, can you find the link and repost it? Thanks!

Coach

Didn't Pinky Randall have a copper-cooled Chevy in his collection ?

( I think I remember this from a Cars & Parts Feature on Pinky from ' 90s...)

Yes, and I believe that engine is now in the GM Heritage Center since GM purchased most of Pinky's collection for the new museum.

:) :grin:

Seems to me that Car Classics ? Magazine did an article on the Copper Cooled Chevy back in the 1960s or early 1970s. I'll have to research the Issue and I seem to remember that they wrote about the Copper Cooled car that "henrY" kept or had. Hope this helps, eh!

As I remember the story Henry purchased a car from any other make that was a challenge to his line of cars. So the Copper Cooled was purchased, disassembled to learn all the components and system. Then reassembled and put in storage. From there it ended up in the museum in Detroit.

The other car ended up in the collection in Reno Nevada.

Apparently, if still interested in these cars then you can get your scuba gear ready and try to locate the barge loaded with the Copper Cooled cars that supposedly went down in a storm in one of the Great Lakes. If you find them put me on the list.

Only two cars are accounted for that excaped the recall by Chevrolet. Rumor says there is an engine in a private collection.


There is a lot of confusion about the engines. An engine that looked identical was used to power generators. These are sometimes confused with the car engine.

I have seen a one cylinder engine on a Delco Light Plant generator that used the same copper fin technology as the Chevy engine. There may have been two or four cylinder versions.
I seem to remember seeing a photo (supposedly taken on the Greenfield Village grounds) of a PILE of copper cooled Chevy engines stored in a building. The picture was taken through a large window. I wondered at the time if it could be the the engines which were removed and replaced during the recall. It's not impossible that they would end up being given to the museum after a few decades of storage in some dusty GM warehouse.
Mike

One last comment. The copper for these cars came from the mines in Utah.
Brownie

Canadian Automotive Trade 5, no. 2 (February 1923): 14.

Canadian Automotive Trade 5, no. 6 (June 1923): 45.

There will be an opportunity to see 2 copper cooled engines at the 50th Anniversary Meet in Flint next July. One copper cooled engine is in the basement of the Sloan Museum. The museum director has assured us that we will be able to tour the cars and the copper cooled engine that is stored in the basement. The other copper cooled engine is in the GM Heritage Center. We will be touring that facility as well. The GM Heritage Center also has a 1918? Model D 8 cylinder complete car.
I am still looking for the correct spark plugs for the copper cooled engine. Neither of the 2 copper cooled engines mentioned above have original spark plugs in them. I would like to donate to them the correct spark plugs. Can you help me ID the correct plugs.

dtm

David, I cannot tell you for sure which plugs were original in a copper cooled engine , but AC titans were the advertised plugs from the 1918 to 1924 period. I have original AC Adverts from 1919 - 1921 , plus this link on spark plugs shows the AC Titan still the same For Sale in 1924. Have you had any chance to check the thread sizes with an 18mm spark plug for thread fitting??
http://sparkplugsite.awardspace.biz/0page20.html

Well done guys,

One of the most interesting threads I have read, as I did not know alot about the Copper Cooled.

Regards

Ray

I found a drawing of the Copper Cooled engine in a trade mag that shows the cylinders, the heads, OHV, and spark plugs. These plugs are AC Titans that came in a green box with the name A.C. Spark Plug Co. Flint, Mich. Before 1922 the name was the Champion Ignition Co. The box end tabs are labeled "A C TITAN SAE RT 7/8" The only labeling on the plug is A C Titan. The SAE plug had a smaller body with a smaller hex nut. In late 1925 AC came out with a numbering system and the 7/8 SAE Regular Titan became the Type E plug with no ribs. The E plugs didn't get ribs until the late 20s and did not get marked with an E until the early 30s. The Type A is a 7/8 SAE regular but has a larger body with the larger hex nut.
kenK

Hi Ken,
Well Done!!
I have posted an advertisment in the members photos forum.
Regards Jack

The AC titan plugs in the view which was mentioned by KenK appear to have a ball type wire connector on the spark wire terminal ,and not the knurled flat type of connector nut.

Do a google search there are some photos out there.

David,
Okay, I have sorted my old plugs and looks like I can supply two sets of Titan plugs for the engines. The sets are not identical but if the engines are a few feet apart nobody will notice the difference. Sorry but I don't know whether the fat or thin porcelain is 100% correct. Maybe Ken does.

Where do I send the plugs?

You owe me for this one! or two!!

Jack is correct on the terminal nut was a big round ball that screw on to the CC plugs. Then the terminal wire just clipped on to the ball, Most Chev4 instruction manuals showed an illustration with the spark plug being grounded with a screw driver with these Connenicut connectors.
The CC used the thick type.
kenK

Hello Chip:

Do you want to bring them to Flint?

dave miner
330-492-7215

They are laid out ready to be boxed for shipment. No telling if they will ever surface again if put away for seven months.