VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions New guy with a 1940 KC project

I picked up a 1940 Model that was built in December of 1939. (This is what I figured out from the ID tag in the right side of the cowl. I can't be sure that the ID tag is original to the vehicle, but I am assuming it is.)
The truck has been a project for someone before me and a lot of the parts look new or, at least, in very good shape. It is mostly held together at the moment by minimal hardware to make it look like a truck.
The fellow I bought it from took it in part trade for a mid-70's Ford he had redone. He didn't do anything to it before passing it on to me. He was told that the truck had a "new engine and transmission" and the engine has very clean grey paint. I take that to mean that at least the engine has been redone and the transmission probably works.
I found a casting number on the engine that is 3835911 and my impression is that means that it is a 1954-55(?) engine of some sort. I attached a photo of some numbers on the left side of the transmission in the hope that someone will tell me what it is!
Actually my list of questions is way too long!
>>>I guess one of the first things I should ask is which manual(s) I should locate. I will need to rewire the truck, attach the cab to the frame correctly, redo the wood bottom of the bed and figure out the supporting parts for the bed to frame connection. Which manuals have people been most successful with? <<<
I received 2 bumpers and at least one bracket, but I don't know if they are correct for this truck.
Where to start and where to ask all my questions??
I am attaching a few photos of the truck as it arrived in my driveway last week.
Any assistance is appreciated.
I am located in Taos, New Mexico about an hour and 3/4 of an hour north of Santa Fe.
Thanks,
Nick

Nick
Welcome!
From experience in completing 2 truck restorations I will suggest as a beginning a couple of references are needed.

The first is a 1939 Shop Manual. It will have priceless information for working on the drive train and electrical system etc.. Copies are typically available from Jim Carter’s Truck Parts or The Filling Station. They each have online catalogs or hard copies can be ordered, if preferred.

The second is a Chevrolet Master Parts Catalog. These were published beginning in 1929(?). These are published in blocks of years for example: 1929-1942, 1929- 1946, 1929-1950 etc.. These can be found for sale on the various auction sites and maybe as reprints from one of the vendors referenced above. Electronic editions for some catalogs are shown at: www.oldcarmanualproject.com

Another invaluable resource is: Stovebolt.com. It is a website dedicated to Chevy trucks. Most of the truck enthusiasts here also frequent that sites as well.

Nick, Welcome to Chat.
Looks like quite a project. Maybe I can help a bit.
The bumper with the bracket attached is for a 1941-1946 pickup. The Face Bar, as Chevy called it, fits both front and back, the bracket pieces are for the rear. Your other bumper is for Ford passenger car from approximately 1942-1948. I am not sure whether it is front or rear.
I think you have properly identified your engine. I could not find your transmission casting number in my list, but I think I can see the casting date has a 0 for its final digit. This would suggest a 1940 date. The correct transmission case was only used in 1940 on 1/2, 3/4, and 1 Ton trucks.
I hope you got more parts.

Mike

MIke,
Thanks for the identification on the bumpers.

If the transmission is the correct one, should everything fit as original with the engine that is there? The one time that I crawled under the truck so far, I saw that the transmission was being held in place with a ratchet strap. So I wondered if the engine might be an incorrect length, leaving the transmission hanging in the air.

Honestly, I have not spent much time at all with the truck as I have been distracted with other household duties, but I hope to get to it later today. I will try to take more/better photos of the transmission to positively identify it.

I did order a shop manual and the Chevrolet Master Parts Catalog in response to 37Blue's suggestions.

I will gather the other parts I received with the truck and get an idea of what is missing.

Again, thanks for the assistance on identifying the bumpers.
Nick

I suggest that you look at the tech articles in the Stovebolt forum. They have quite a good collection of articles about putting a later 235 into these earlier trucks.

I cannot remember the details but there is a length difference that can be handled relatively easily. I know that the water pump length is an issue as well as the front mounting plate to get the engine at the correct height. Those could be having an impact on your transmission mount.

Whatever you do make sure you have adequate but not too much overlap of the torque tube sliding joint and the drive shaft. You do not want them to come apart when the axle drops or bottom out when the rear suspension is compressed.

Thanks, Rusty,

I will take a look at the articles on the Stovebolt forum!

Nick

The transmission must stay in its original location. An original mount would assure that.

Mike

Well, I received the Shop Manual and the Master Parts Catalog and have started trying to figure out what I am missing.

I believe that the floor pan that I received with the truck is not the correct one - it seems to be about 1" too long from front to rear. When I try to figure out from the Master Parts Catalog which one I need, I come up with a blank. (I realize that I have a bit to learn about using the Master Parts Catalog, so I may be looking at it incorrectly!) I look at the "Conventional Cab-Exploded View" and see the floor pan listed as being in group 16.545. When I go to group 16.545, the only reference I see to 1940 is for a COE. (I am attaching a photo of the floor pan I received with tape measures showing its dimensions.)

Also, I am under the impression that the 1940 1/2 ton pickups had some sort of brace or bracket holding the front fenders. I have looked for the fenders (or supports for them) in the master parts catalog and can not figure out where to look or find a photo that might tell me which group they would be in. (I assume that they are there somewhere, I am just not familiar with the organization of the book yet to find them.)

Is the part number and description, "8.205 13/4" wide x 100ft roll - one bead" a flexible material that goes between all the fenders and the body? Are there other bits like this that go between the body and the frame?

I am having a difficult time figuring out exactly how the pickup bed is mounted to the frame. (When I received the truck, the bed was held on with tarp straps!) Is there an illustration available somewhere that shows what is supposed to be there?

I have attached a photo of the numbers on the side of the transmission. 591195 appears as does the number 41. I was concerned that since the engine casting number indicated that it was a 1954-55 series, there might be an issue with the engine/transmission length. But the mounts seem to all be in the correct location and there seems to be no issue with the distance between the fan and the radiator.

What material are the various knobs in the cab made out of? A previous owner prepped the cab interior for primer by wrapping things he didn't want painted with masking tape...it seems that it has been there for years and before I try to get it off, I am hoping to find out what the knobs are made from so I know what NOT to use to get the tape off.

This is just a start of the questions I have...but I will limit this post so that I don't put anyone to sleep.

Thanks for your input,
Nick

Nick, Sorry to leave you hanging for so long. You have a lot of questions to address. The front fender brackets are group number 8.141. I can send pictures so you know what to look for. They fit '39 and '40 1/2, and 3/4 ton trucks.
I have a '39 1/2 ton (JC) pickup. It has been apart for many years.
Your bed was spaced off the frame with wooden blocks. I think there should be more of the cross channels that support the floor planks.
I will look into your floorboard situation. I just checked my 1949 catalog and there is no mention of the '39/'40 truck there.
Pleas feel free to email me at my direct address below and we can exchange phone numbers. I will be glad to help you.
Oh...dash knobs are plastic. You have quite a job ahead of you on that masking removal.

Mike

To add on to Mike's response, if you have trouble getting the masking tape off, remove as much as you can, then apply Goo-Gone to the gummy remainder and it'll come right off, with no damage to underlying paint. Any hardware store sells Goo-Gone.

Sorry Nick, I missed seeing this too.

I don’t have KC model info for the fender braces, but did email you photos for ‘37 and ‘46 models and Master Parts Catalog info from the ‘29-‘42. There should be similarities that might help in your search, if others don’t have more specific info.

The rolled material referenced in your post seems to be fender welting, an anti squeak feature. It was not used in these earlier model trucks as delivered from the factory, as far as I know. That was apparently the practice at least up to 1946? I am not certain what year it came into use. Restorers sometimes do opt to use it, however.

I will search for the info I have on bed mounting blocks, cushions, cross sills and hardware. I didn’t find my ‘46 restoration photos yet and need to dig deeper. The mounting is likely the same or very similar. That seemed to be the case in comparing my two trucks. Mar-K Truck Parts might also have that info specific to the KC model.

Hi Nick

Mike is of course right about the knobs being plastic.

I believe they are, more specifically, bakelite.

They are not supposed to be painted (if they are).

And I think they are supposed to be what's commonly called "rose tan" in color.

I would remove all the tape you can, and then start with a cloth soaked in alcohol.

Alcohol shouldn't hurt the bakelite, but it CAN be very hard on paint, so just be aware of that.

Hope that helps.

37Blue,
Thanks for the info on the front fender braces. I appreciate it. Eventually, I will find some that fit the '39-'40...I hope. I see that they have come up on Ebay in the past. I will keep my eyes out.

I have seen that there are vendors online who sell pickup bed mounting kits for '39-'40 Chevys. I will probably order one of those, but will also keep my eyes open for drawings or photos of how the bed is supposed to be mounted in case there are parts (not included in the mounting kit) that I need to acquire before putting it all together.

Thanks!
Nick

Ole,

The alcohol soaked rag was successful for me in getting the tape and its goo off the knobs!

Thanks,
Nick

Nick,
Be careful about buying fender brackets. Make sure they are for the small trucks. eBay vendors often don't know or care about details on part applications.Mike

Learned something new regarding the fender welting AKA “anti-squeak” material referenced above. It apparently was used after all. It is specifically referenced in the 1929-1942 Chevrolet Master Parts Catalog; group number 8.205 on pages 259-260.
For 1940 KC models, and others it’s Part Number 470549.

I'll move this thread to General Discussions. It's long past the introduction phase.

. Hi Nick, The 37 - 54 engines are same length. The 1955 - 63 six cylinder engines have a longer water pump.
An adapter is available to attach the short pump which is preferable to buying a shortened 55+ pump. You appear to have a 3 speed trans that's 12 inches long. You must use the correct 3 or 4 speed trans to attach the clutch and brake pedals. 1937 - 39 thans had spur cut low gear. 1940 - 46 had helical low gear. All trucks and commercial and trucks made 1939 and before had Spiral bevel differential gears. 1940 and newer have hypoid gears. 1940 and older trucks (NOT light commercial) had torque tube rear end. 1941 and later trucks had hotchkiss. You have a light commercial open express commonly called a pickup truck which is confusing. If you find a torque tube truck rear end with hypoid gears and a torque tube, it's a 1940. The 1940 trucks also used roller bearings in the U-joints.
The 3 speed used in taxi, police, One ton and Double duty used bearings in the counter shaft. the half tom commercial had bushings. If you have a 1940 trans in your truck with bushings, you can put the counter shaft from a 1954 or newer with bearing in the case.
Sorry to go into so much detail. Lou .
. .

Lee,

With regard to the Anti-Squeak (fender welt) material, the 1929-1950 Master Parts Catalog shows Group Number "8.205 Anti-Squeak, Universal" "All" "(1 3/4 wide x 100 ft. roll-one bead" as part number 601726. It shows the quantity as As Required. (It does show another part number for 1947-1950.) I will look through the forum and see if others have discussed what they did with regard to fender welt and how they feel about their results.

Lou,

Due to other responsibilities, I have only had a limited amount of time to become familiar with the truck, but it appears to me that the clutch and brake pedal set up is successfully bolted to the transmission. I have attached a photo of that area to this post.

Is there a way to identify what rear end is in the truck from the casing? I did find a small number cast into the left side of the differential that appears to read "323". Are there other numbers or identifiers that might assist in telling me what I have? (I have attached a photo of the mark I found.)

Thanks for the info regarding the engine length and water pumps. My project has what I believe is a freshly rebuilt engine with a water pump that appears to fit with an appropriate space between it and the radiator. I will take a closer look at the water pump to see what I can learn about it. Someone had started working on this project before I purchased it from a third party who didn't know any specifics. I have assumed that the water pump that is present is correct and will be functional, but that is based more on hope than anything!

Nick

. Hi Nick, Your pictures confirm that you have a 1940 3-speed transmission. (The 37 - 39 had the speedometer drive at the rear and the 1940 - 47 farther forward.) The 1954 engine is a good upgrade from the 1940 engine. No water pump modifications is necessary. It appears to be installed correctly. If your pumpkin is hypoid with torque tube, your gear ratio is probably 4.11. It was used from 1940 - 54. In 1953 GM offered a 3.90 as an optional economy ratio. In 1954, 3.90 was standard and 4.11 was heavy duty. Look at web page <http://home.znet.com/c1937/RPM.htm> for more transmission and and rear end ratios. There used to be a company in Gilbert Az that offered a 3.54 ratio for 1940 - 54 half ton pumpkins. I don't have casting numbers for pumpkins.
. I measured the length of the floor pans on a 37 half ton Canopy with 3 speed and it was roughly 16-1/2 inches. The ton&half 38 Canopy is the same except for access to master cylinder. (first photo.) I then measured the 1942 ton&half dump truck which is 20" (Second photo). I don't have a 1940 half ton to measure. None have the bulge. What is your distance between the toe board and near the seat riser? Sorry I couldn't hold the tape measure, camera and floor mat at the same time. .
. Good luck, Lou .

Hi Nick

I just posted on your other thread, but in case you are only watching one or the other, I'll re post here.

If you are still looking for a floor pan for your truck...
and would like metal...
and prefer US made ...
a reproduction that LOOKS to be right is being or has been made and you can find it here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203882177033

or maybe here, but at a higher price:

https://www.c2cfabrication.com/products/1939-40-chevrolet-3spd-1-2-ton-pickup-front-floor-pan

Hope that helps.

Lou,

Thanks for the information about the engine and the rear gears. I guess I will have to wait and see if I need to lower the ratio of the rear until I get the truck on the road and see how it behaves.

The distance from the toe board to the rear of the floor pan space on my 1940 KC is about 17 5/8". I have attached a photo of the temporary plywood floor I have put in place with the tape measure showing the front to back measurement.

Nick

Ole,

Thanks very much for the links to sellers of reproduction floor pans for the 1940 1/2 ton 3 speed pickup.

I will absolutely make a note!

I have made a temporary plywood floorboard that will keep me going for the moment, but I am pleased to see that someone makes a reproduction that looks to be of good quality and doesn't cost more than the rest of the truck!

Nick

If it ws my truck I would cut the battery and master cylinder access you have marked out and leave that board there, I have done the same with my 38 but my trans sits up through the board further. How many are going to see what is there and know it isnt factory???
Tony