VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc 41 Special Deluxe

Hi all,

I will be receiving a 1941 Chevy Special Deluxe. It’s located about 3.5 hours from me. I would really like to get it running before trailering it to make the loading and unloading easier.

It sat in a barn for 30 years and then was restored in about 2000. I don’t know exactly what was done at that time, but I know for a fact it was running in 2004 when it was placed in a garage. It has not been driven since.

My plan is to put a new battery in it and drain/replace any old fuel in the tank. I will of course check all fluids prior to attempting to start. Is there anything else I should look out for or be prepared to do in order to get it running?

Thanks in advance!

I would be very hesitant to try and quickly start a vehicle that has been sitting for almost 20 years. Do you even know if the engine can be rotated by hand?

I would also question if the brakes will work.

Starting a Long-idled old Chevy

Plan on not using the original tank at all until you get it cleaned or replaced. If there was fuel left in it, it's thick and sticky and will have coated everything in the system. Your car will start and run if the fuel pump is good but when you shut it off the old fuel will stick your intake valves shut and you'll play hell with your pushrods and rocker arms the next time you try to start it. You might get lucky enough to only bend pushrods. If you MUST start it before going through the fuel system plan on rigging up an accessory tank with a hose running straight to the carburetor. Below is how I did mine after bending my pushrods by doing exactly what you're about to do. I'll move this thread to the Mechanical forum for you. Welcome to VCCA Chatter.

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was wanting to know.

I guess I will be winching it by hand after all.

And what about the brakes? Usually when a vehicle sits that long the brakes will have issues.

Not sure about the brakes. Would you expect them to be seized not allowing the wheels to turn, or would they not want to clamp down at all?

I was young when this thing was garaged. I do know it’s been kept clean, dry, and covered for the last 19 years. It’s also on Jack stands to avoid damaging the tires when they go flat but I’m sure they’re dry rotted anyway.

These cars used DOT3 brake fluid. It attracts water. The brake cylinders and pistons are bare steel. Picture water sitting against bare steel for all those years. The pistons inside the cylinders could (likely but not guaranteed) be rusted in place. If they're in the brakes released position and rusted in place you'll have no brakes when you step on the pedal. If they're in the brakes applied position the wheels will be locked. If, by chance, they're not rusted in place, the cylinder wall will likely be pitted and when you press the brake pedal fluid will leak past the seal and you'll lose all the fluid. Plan on doing a full brake job before getting the car on the road.

Thank you, good to know.

You also might find that the car will not even roll when you attempt to winch it out of the garage. That may be because the brake shoes have fastened themselves to the drums, thanks to humidity. Sometimes giving the car a good bump (not hard enough to cause damage) will unstick them. Otherwise be prepared to back off the brake shoes in order to get the car to roll. If the distance is very short to move the car, you may just end up winching it onto the trailer by skidding the wheels. One suggestion - if you don't already have one, please consider purchasing a shop manual for your car. It will tell you how to do many of the operations that have been suggested here. Good Luck!!!

I found a PDF of a shop manual but didn’t see anything about tow/recovery points on the front end. Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

You need to start thinking old school. The design of the frames and suspensions on these cars was not optimized for minimum weight and crush zones. There were no designated tow and lift points. In fact these cars used bumper jacks to lift the car far enough to change a wheel.

While I would not just grab on the bumper, I would not be too concerned with hooking to the heavier portions the frame or front axle

To get home from the garage, do the following:

a. Don't even try to crank it. All the above advice is sound and should be followed.

b. See if the brake shoes are stuck to the drums. If they are, free them up. Start by using a brake tool or flat tip screwdriver and back off the adjusters. From your perspective behind the wheel or in front of it, turning the adjusters counterclockwise frees shoes up as far as them being tight to the drums. Use two stout flat tip screwdrivers and work the drums all around until they free up. Work with tool between axle head and drum too. Forcefully tapping the drum all around will also help.

c. Take the clutch pan off and use a putty knife or something flat but sturdy to slide between the clutch disc and the fly wheel or pressure plate. Have tension on the clutch to assure it will pop loose when you have sunk the putty knife in sufficient places around the circumference to free it up. It will pop free.

d. Air up the tires to about so lbs or so.

e. Load it on the tail low trailer using the wench to pull where it needs to be. No wench, then use a come-along to get it up on the trailer. Strap it down read good and check it soon as you do a couple of turns and then now and then until you get it home. If the hitch jack is up high enough it should slowly roll off. Have something in place to stop it.

f. Now work on the fuel system, brakes, etc. Don't use the fan blade to turn the engine. You may get the blades out of alignment and that is about as ugly as a Fulton. Is too.

Good luck with it,

Charlie

I bought a cheep scope off Amazon and it was handy for assessing the condition of my car. Removed a plug and had a clear view of the cylinders. Used it to determine the state of the tank (had to get a new one after seeing the inside). Great tool to have on hand.

I'm curious if the car was ever moved. I will be undergoing the same process in just a short while, but mine had been started a year ago and driven several years back. I'm hoping to check all the normal "been sittin'" items and try to start it. The gas tank smells like gas but will bring some along to prime it before trying to start it. I have a trailer with winch if needed and getting it home isn't the problem as long as it will roll. Getting it off and into the garage will be the problem.

Please give us an update on what happened.

Just because the gas smells ok does not mean that the tank is not full of water and sediment below the gas. That is what will get pulled into the pump and carburetor first.

I quietly cringe and walk away when people tell their hero stories about starting a long idled engine in 30 minutes after they dragged the car out of the barn/woods.

Connecting a battery to a car that has been sitting where rodents can eat the insulation off the wiring is a recipe for disaster.

Going out there this weekend to look at it and prep it. I intended to move it a few months ago but had stuff come up.

Definitely drain the tank, as Rusty stated fuel floats on water.
Tony

Update for those interested:

I took the group’s advice and did not attempt to start it. I used a winch and trailer to tow it back to my house 3.5 hours away from where it was stored.

The fuel system looks great. I drained and dropped the tank and cleaned the system from the carb back.

Brakes were not seized and seem to be in good shape. I bled them and replaced with clean fluid. It was stored in a very dry climate, so I think I got lucky here.

The oil filter housing had 2 inches of sludge in the bottom. I drained the oil pan and there is sludge in there too. My next step is to drop the oil pan and start following the steps in the “Starting a Long-Idled old Chevy” write up that Rusty 37 linked a few months ago.

Thanks again to all for their advice. I’m sure I’ll need more as I continue working towards getting it up and running.

That is great news! Thanks for the update.

Enjoy the rejuvenation!

Ok, I got it started but it will only run on choke when cold or full throttle when warm. I’m thinking vacuum issue for several reasons.

The carb was pretty gunked up and missing a screw holding the two halves together. I’ve got that all cleaned and rebuilt and ready to go back on.

I got a new Bakelite insulator from Chevs of the ‘40s but didn’t see where I could order a gasket. Looking at the material, I think there needs to be a gasket on top and bottom. Can anyone confirm, and what is the material? Are people using gasket maker, felt, cork, etc?

Side note - this thing has a Rochester carb and the base bolts are 2 15/16 apart instead of 2 11/26. All of the 216 material I’ve seen says 2 11/16 so I’m wondering if somehow this thing has the intake and carb from a 235. The engine is definitely the original 216 based on the side cover.

The insulator needs no gasket, top or bottom.

Hi eertle

I know, not using gaskets on the insulator is highly counter-intuitive.
But I followed Gene's advice on this and it works perfectly.

Regarding the hole spacing on the carburetor, I THINK it's possible to have a 235 manifold on a 216, with only a slight misalignment at the ports.
Others here will know that better than I.

As to identifying the 216 based on the side cover, I believe the early dipper lubed 235's had tall side covers as well and looked a lot like the 216's.
The 235's were only used in larger trucks, but maybe they could be swapped into a car?
Again, others will know this better than I.

Is there a number stamped into the machined flat area on the engine block just behind the base of the distributor?
That number could tell us more about your engine.

Forgot to say...

Only running with the choke on when cold,
and only running well at higher RPM's when warm,
is the way my 216 ran with blocked idle system passages.

With both a Rochester AND a Carter W1.

The engine code is AA.

Thanks for the advice on not using gaskets. I don’t suppose there’s a generally agreed upon torque spec?

That is the right code for a 1941 216 passenger car engine. 👍 🙂

I have a 41 Master Deluxe with the original 216 and it has a Carter carb, not the original but the same model that came on it. It needs some choke (1/4 - 1/2) until it is warms up. Once warmed up it will idle without any throttle.

In the past on this car I have had a bad coil cause the car to require more throttle to keep it going and as it would stall at low RPM.

In another instance it had a carb that needed rebuilding that did make it harder to start but did not require any more choke. Once going the performance was not there, you hit the gas and it took a while for anything to happen. It would idle but I had that turned up on the old worn carb.

I think back then most of the torque specs were measured in uga dugas and good enoughs and not using a torque wrench.