VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc 1928 chev capital 1 ton needs some TLC

Looking for a little help to solve this mystery.
Dec 2023.

Sequence of events with 1928 Chev Capitol 1 ton truck:

Backed out of drive, stopped to change from reverse to 2nd gear to enter road.
Reverse was locked.
I was able to force into 2nd.
Drove for a short distance and heard metal on metal sound. Drove slowly home.
Took tower off, all seems good. Spring on tower gate to allow for reverse was broke. Replaced it.
Now in garage with back wheels on jacks.
Both wheels and drive shaft/torque tube turn as it should.

Started to check all gears with engine running, but noticed while in neutral and clutch not engaged, the engine barely turns over, but if i engage clutch with gearshift still in neutral, engine turns over quickly as it should,
I started engine with clutch in and when i l shifted into gear and let out clutch, engine shut down.
Clutch was new 2years ago.

Any ideas? thx in advance for any assistance.

Rob Heffernan
Located in London Ontario, Canada

Hi Rob

I think we need a little clarification.
You say that with the clutch NOT engaged in neutral the engine barely turns over, but then runs free with the clutch ENGAGED.
BUT...
Then you say you let out the clutch (which is ENGAGING the clutch) in gear and it kills the engine.

So is it killing the engine with the clutch pedal pushed down (disengaged)...
or with the pedal let up (engaged)?

One way will probably be a throw out bearing issue, the other way will be a transmission issue.

Is the garage on any kind of a slope? Obviously something is dragging, or seriously damaged. Unfortunately it sounds like it is in the transmission. Whether it could be a severely damaged bearing, or the counter shaft thrust washer is up to you to find out. Think about what is, or is not turning when the clutch is in, or out. Did any of the 3 internal shifting forks get bent when you forced it into or out of gear?

Drain the fluid, and see if there is a significant amount of metal in the fluid. Stick your finger up in the hole to see if there is a fair amount that might have settled out. On these non-synchronized transmissions there will always be some, a lot is a problem. You should save the fluid in case that is not the case.

The shifting forks are ok. Removed the tower and built a box on workbench to see if all gears shift ok. Yes they do. I have tower in neutral position so forks are in correct position to be put back into gear box.

I cannot get gear cluster into neutral position to accept the tower.

I understand that both must be in neutral position to work correctly.

When clutch is out, i can't move truck. When clutch is In, i am able to move it.
Will remove fluid to inspect further.
Thanks for you input... Rob Heffernan In London Ontario, which is 2 hrs from Detroit

I believe the problem is in transmission.
I cant see how to get the gear box in neutral so it will accept tower. I have manually turned engine over slowly but cannot wee where the output from engine is connected to drive shaft. Back wheel are moving.
As i always say..no matter what it is, you've got to have at least one mystery, so time to dig a little deeper.

The shifting forks are ok. Removed the tower and built a box on workbench to see if all gears shift ok. Yes they do. I have tower in neutral position so forks are in correct position to be put back into gear box.

I cannot get gear cluster into neutral position to accept the tower.

I understand that both must be in neutral position to work correctly.

When clutch is out, i can't move truck. When clutch is In, i am able to move it.
Will remove fluid to inspect further.
Thanks for you input... Rob Heffernan In London Ontario, which is 2 hrs from Detroit

Cut a stick to hold the pedal down. With a rear wheel off the floor, see what happens in the transmission when you turn the wheel.

Mike

The Chevrolet transmissions were labeled "sliding gear" type transmissions. The cluster gear is the one in the bottom of the transmission that has a series of gears machined on it and transfers power to the output shaft when in any gear other than high gear. When in high gear the input shaft and the output shaft are locked together by the high gear slider. There also should be a solitary reverse idler gear in the bottom that would be engaged when reverse is initiated. Being a 4 speed it should have 3 shifting forks in the tower. The tower shifting gate is what locks out the other gears when one is engaged. It usually will have some form of a detent to keep it in the selected gear. The reverse lockout will work in one of several methods to keep the transmission from accidentally being shifted into reverse while the truck is moving. With that little bit of description out of the way...

Push the clutch down and see if you can move the various sliding gears into position. If the truck is jacked up I have seen gears slowly slide themselves into gear. That is why I was asking if there is any slope to the floor, or the running gear. If need be you can use a brass drift pin to get them back into the neutral position. Do not use a steel drift pin. They really should easily slide back and forth. If you can not get all of the sliding gears to move you may have other more serious problems. Rubber bands or possibly toothpicks are a viable option to hold the sliders in the proper position to line up with the shifting tower forks. Those will not cause any harm in the old style transmissions we have, and will be quickly chewed up or in the case of the rubber bands dissolved.

You will have to get all 3 sliding gears and the tower forks perfectly lined up or you will have the same problem. Once you get them lined up and the tower back on, like 35Mike said 'use a stick to hold the clutch pedal down' (disengaged). At this point you should be able to put the transmission into any gear and turn the rear wheels. You should do this in all 4 forward gears and reverse before starting the truck to make sure the problem is corrected. You might have to lock one of the rear wheels with a block or a jack to prevent the spider gears from doing what they are supposed to do.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Thank you for response. The floor is not sloped. I have some help coming by this week. Will keep you up to date. Just getting familiar with the site. I did the stick idea and was able to move gears around, so progress. I did take out most of the oil. To my untrained eye, nothing looks broken.
Someone once said to me that nothing is as difficult as it first appears. He also sent a pic of a dog chasing his tail :)


Thx..Rob H

Dec 14, 2023

Progress report:
Was able to get all gears into neutral. The output shaft and input shaft are now not locked and can rotate independently.
Oil was put back in.
All gears lined up in neutral and ready for tower which also was in neutral fork position. It went into place (after couple attempts ).
Test:
Shifted 1-4 ok. The reverse also shifted into place.

Started up engine and went through 1-4... ok. Tried reverse. It did work easily at first. While still in reverse, I moved further backwards in drive and the reverse motion seemed to tighten up, so i stopped and went forward back to garage.
Thats where i'm at right now.

I am going to jack up rear end and check reverse motion.

Keeping in mind that the original problem started when i put truck in reverse, stopped to go into1st or 2nd and it locked up.
I gently forced it into forward gear and went for a short drive and then the metal on metal sound happened.

Getting there :)...Rob H

Dec 17:
I was able to put trans in reverse and go up and back on long driveway several times with no problems.
Everything looks and feels like it has settled into place.

I am now very aware of the gate lever position before going into forward gear.
I must admit that i really didn't give it the attention it deserved.

A new $2 generic 3" expansion spring with hooks at each end was attached to gate lever just below shift knob and at other end ~ 3" lower on shift tower hooked to a small gear clamp. Works perfect.

Will take on a road test soon, weather permitting. Rain & snow on the way.

Besides the help from VCCA members, another source that helped me visualize what was supposed to happen with trans gears was a Model A youtube video by G Bell, and shop teacher Mr Pete. Every little bit helps. Thanks to all ...Rob H

That's great news. Thank you for coming back to update everyone as to the outcome, and the other sources of information.

I agree that is great news. A key point to remember is that these old non-synchro straight cut gear boxes cannot be shifted quickly. If you are traveling very fast you need to double-clutch even on up-shifts.