VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 How to adjust hydraulic lifters on a 1952 engine 235

The shop manual states that after lash is taken out turn the adjusting screw 1 1/2 Turns. I've tried this and there is a lot of chatter. Some of the web sites said 1 turn and others said 1/2 turn. And more then 1/2 turn you will burn a valve. So how many turns should I use. I might ad that after engine is warmed up the chatter goes away.

The idea is for the adjustment process to position the plunger at mid-point in its travel in the lifter bore. The spring in the lifter should be enough pressure to move the plunger to the top of its travel.

It is difficult to properly adjust a hydraulic lifter if the plunger is stuck in the lifter bore. You also need to allow adequate time for the lifter to bleed down or fill up with oil after you make an adjustment. I normally do not make more than a 1/2 turn without stopping to let the plunger and lifter adjust.

Here is the approach I use if I am working on a hydraulic lifter engine if I have not worked on before or the owner is having issues.

I start by setting the #1 cylinder at top dead center with both valves closed. I then loosen the adjuster until I can just spin the push rod. I slowly tighten the adjuster until I can not spin the push rod. I then turn the adjuster down the additional turns specified. I do that for both valves on that cylinder. I then go through the rest of the firing order.

If you are adjusting the lifters with the engine running be patient. My experience is that if I tighten the lifter the engine will run roughly until the lifter bleeds down because the valve is being held open. If I loosen the lifter it clatters until the lifter can pump up to remove the clearance.

I am at a loss as to why you would have more "chatter" when turning down more.
The only explanation I can come up with is maybe you are pushing the plunger down farther into the lifter bore where you have varnish deposits that the plunger is sticking in.
Otherwise, pushing further down into the bore wouldn't allow clearance to develop (and thus clatter).
In fact, as you go further down, at some point the plungers will bottom out (thus preventing full closure of the valves) and the engine won't run.

I agree with Ole that the plunger could be sticking in the bore of the lifter. I also agree that any further adjustment will make the engine run roughly or not run at all once the plunger is at the bottom of the bore.

This engine has 15000 miles. When I got the car the lifters were noise so I removed them from engine, took apart, clean them out very well (they really did not need) pumped them up with oil. They pumped up tight so I put back in engine and after running some were loose again. It's like they are not getting sufficent oil to keep pumped up. So thinking the lifters were at fault, I purchaed a new set off ebay and only about half would pump up. Not sure what to do now. BTW, when I took lifters apart I did not mix up parts. The same plunger went back in the lifter it came out of. I did before all this put . I put a quart of marvel mystery oil in engine at first thinking that would clear the lifters but it did not help. Could that cause plungers to get stuck. I have 10W30 in oil.

Hi Chet
I just reread your original post and noted that the noise goes away when the engine warms up.
A couple of things come to mind.

First...
Some valves will of course be held open when the engine is stopped.
The lifters for those valves will leak all the way down and need to be pumped up again after starting.
You may be right in questioning oil supply.
How much oil pressure do you have at start up?
Have you had the pan off and looked at the screen on the oil pickup?

Second:
Are you absolutely sure you are hearing lifter noise?
Are you sure it isn't piston slap?
I don't mean to question your mechanical abilities here, just asking. :-)

I think I remember some posts from you about replacement lifters. It sure sound like you have that area under control. I think you are correct that the plungers are not sticking.

I agree with Ole about the potential for lifter bleed down as well as supply issues.

I wonder if the best step now is to use my suggested approach for making an initial setting. In that approach the idea is that the very light load from the spring below the plunger is the one that stops the pushrod from rotating. That is basically setting zero clearance with the plunger at the top of its travel.

On thAT engine the lifter oil gallery is supplied oil flow from the rear main bearing. The oil goes from the rear main bearing oil grove to the rear camshaft bearing. From the rear cam bearing to the lifter oil gallery and also to the oil line in the rear lower oil connection behind the side cover. That short oil line goes to the bottom of the Cyl. head and then that oil goes up to the rocker arms. If the rocker arms are getting oil as normal the lifter oil gLLERY SHOULD BE GETTING OIL ALSO, tHE OIL DOES NOT NEED TO BE UNDER IGH PRESSURE, JUST SO IT SURROUNDS EACH LIFTER AS THE UP AND DOWN MOVEMENT OF THE LIFTER WILL FILL IT WITH OIL

If you were to place an empty lifter in a pan of oil and have it standing up and then press the center of the lifter up and down like the push rod does it should fill its self with oil. For testing MMO could be used in place of oil as it is "thinner" and will floe better than cold oil.

Back in 1950 when you bought new lifters they came filled with kerosene and coated with cosmoline.

Got her running. I decided to go thru the 24 lifters I had, GM and after market and pick out 12 that would pump up. Instlalled them, adjusted slack out and turn the screwdriver 1 1/2 turns. Engine stated right up with very litlle noise. Now I need to fine adjust to get it running a little smoother but I'm satisfied whith the valves beign set correctly. Now how do I time. I think I know how but my timing light is not bright enough. Do they have timing lights for 6 volts systems. The octtane selector is another story. Guess I will set it on zero and see how it runs. I know (or think) the purpose is for different octane gas but not sure. And BTW, I take no offense at anyone questioning my mechanical abilities, such as they are. I'm here to learn. What mechanical abilites I have is from asking questions and getting advice from guys like you. So thanks to everyone who helped. I'm sure there will be more questions to come.

I never use a timing light. I advance the timing as much as possible, When it is too far advance it will turn over slower with the starter.
You can set the octane selector all the was to advance, that may be enough or rotate the distributor. After having mine advanced as much as possible it still does not ping with 87 ctane gas,,,,which is higher octane than any regular grade in the early 1950's

Glad to hear you took no offense, as absolutely none was intended! :-)
We are ALL students here, and there will always be something more we can learn.

And glad to hear you got the lifter noise sorted out!

That is a great progress report! I agree that we are all continuously learning. That is why I keep participating in Chat.

I will offer my inputs about ignition timing and the octane selector.

When she is not aware of it I borrow my wife’s lawn tractor (or at least the battery) to power my 12 volt timing light. The timing light does not know it is powered from one vehicle and getting the trigger signal from a different vehicle.

My approach is start by setting the octane selector to 0. Then I use the timing light and turn the distributor to set the timing at the initial marks on the flywheel as described in the shop manual. For example, on my ‘37 that is 5 degrees BTDC at idle.

I adjust the octane selector to add another 8 degrees of advance so the total static initial timing is 13 degrees BTDC. The engine runs great with that initial advance and there is no spark knock. If I advance the timing beyond that the car does have trouble starting.

I agree that with the octane ratings for today’s gasoline it would be very difficult to make these old engines develop spark knock.

I agree with Rusty on timing... and do the same thing but without a timing light.
I set the octane selector at "0" and then time to the mark on the flywheel.
Then you have the marks on the octane selector to dial in more advance beyond that.
That way you only have to actually time with a light (or whatever method you use) once.
This way you can play and experiment all you want and always know where you are, or go back to where you were, without going through the whole timing process again.

To time without a timing light, the actual process I use to time to the "0" mark on the octane selector goes like this:

FIRST, set your points to the proper gap
Then set the octane selector to "0".
Turn the engine slowly clockwise just enough to line up the timing mark on the flywheel.
If you go past the mark, back up well past the mark and try again.
With the ignition OFF, connect an ohm meter across the points (one lead to the distributor terminal with the small primary wire that goes to the coil... and one to ground).
Loosen the screw that locks the distributor to the octane selector and turn the distributor body CLOCKWISE until the ohm meter shows continuity (0 ohms).
Then slowly turn the the distributor COUNTER clockwise just until the ohm meter needle jumps up.
If you go too far, turn clockwise some distance and try again.
Lock the setting.
Now you can tinker with the octane selector to fine tune your timing as per Gene and Rusty above.

Good luck!

I do not under stand how the 12 volt battery can work if it is not connected to the coil. OK, you are saying I connect the red cable from the timing light to the postive post on battery, the black cable to the negative post on battery and the timing light plug wire to the number one plug. If what I wrote is right, I guess I do not have to understand as long as it works.

The 12 volt battery only supplies voltage to run the "light" of the timing light.
The plug wire supplies "signal" to "trigger" the light.
The low tension (primary) side of the coil isn't involved in the process at all.

So a separate 12 volt battery runs the timing "light".
Your 6 volt in the car runs the ignition system.
And the pick up wire to the #1 plug wire senses when the spark plug is firing and triggers the timing light.

Not trying to muddy the water but remember that the ignition timing specs were established for ~65 octane gasoline. I haven't used a timing light in many years. I set my octane selector on my 38 to 0 then adjust the timing to fastest/smoothest idle & lock the distributor down. If this results in a slightly faster idle I readjust idle at the carburetor.

Ole's explanation is correct. The 12 volt battery is simply a power source for the bulb in the timing light. Is is not connected to the Chevy electrically.

I agree that there are multiple methods to set the timing on these old cars. I tend to be detail and data oriented so I like to know what timing I have.

I have also used Ole's static timing method with either an ohm meter or a 6 volt light. A key point there is to make sure that the "slack" due to wear in the distributor drive system is removed. Before you rotate the distributor to make the points open turn the shaft opposite the direction of rotation to make sure the gears are meshed in the direction of normal rotation.