VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 28 engine rebuild

Hello,
Has anyone rebuilt their engine on their own? Would anyone recommend this?
I am planning on doing mine but would really appreciate some guidance. Thanks for any tips, advice, and recommendations.
Jim Crowell

Hang in there and I am sure one of the 4 cyl Guru's will be along as there is lots of expertise available here . In the meantime search the 1912-1928 Forum. Lots of info. Go to the Forum "Tech Talk " and check out the School is in Session article by Antique Mechanic. I think it will answer your question.

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the VCCA forums! You'll find lots of great info and people here. ;-)

The answer to your question is yes! There are a couple of play-by-play documented builds on this site.

Ray Holland (aka AntiqueMechanic), a master mechanic, rebuilt a '28 Chevy engine in a series called School is in Session. This story resides in a 250 page PDF on our web page of Technical Articles. To access this list, however, you need to be a member of the VCCA. There are MANY good reasons to join, like getting access to technical experts, being able to post photos on the VCCA website and many more.

Four years ago, I rebuilt the '28 engine in Lurch, my 1927 one ton truck (see the links below). I documented that journey here: Resurrecting a '28 4 banger

Keep us posted about your adventure!

Cheers, Dean

Hi Dean,
Thanks for the information. However, I think there is a problem. I am a member, and as far as I know, I am logged into the forum but still can not get access to the members only section. Would you be able to help me out with that?

Hi again Jim,

I see that you've got your VCCA number in your profile. Cool!

One of the forum admin. folks need to authorize your username for the club privileges. Unfortunately, this is a manual process. ;-(

I'll send one of them a message to get the ball rolling. Hang in there!

Dean

Thanks Dean,
I’ve been looking through the link you sent me. It’s going to be very helpful. I already feel more confident about starting this project.
Jim

Jim,
I am one of the "elves". I verified your VCCA membership and have the honor to be able to change your status on Chatter to VCCA member. You now qualify to see threads and forums reserved for VCCA members. Some privileges are reserved for VCCA members. We hope that it is one of many benefits of VCCA membership and an incentive for some to join us as dues paying members.

If you have bearing inserts then do it yourself. If you have poured babbit bearings for your mains and rods then you might want to have a pro do the rebuild. I had mine rebuilt with new babbit and align bored crank bearings. It was very expensive but if you don't have the tools and old time knowledge then you have to pay someone to do it for you. I'm very happy with how it turned out.

I am slowly rebuilding a '28 motor currently -it's only slow as all sorts of other life and workshop stuff keeps getting in the way.

These motors really are quite straightforward to work on. As said, the big end and main bearings in these motors are white metal Babbit lined. If it's necessary to renew these it does require some specialist knowledge and equipment. But there are companies who can do this work for you.

Indeed, life gets in the way. I haven’t been able to work on my car for some time now. But with all the advice and links I have been given here, I am feeling confident and eager to get started on the engine tear down. Thanks for your response.
Jim

It has begun! I got a good start on the engine tear down today.

Looks nice and clean in there. The first of much good news, I hope.

Mike

Does anyone know how to test the oil pump to see if it is in working condition? I would like to save the $300, and use the pump that is already with the engine.
Jim

Hi Jim,

There's not much to these little vane pumps so you should be able to salvage it. I recommend taking it apart and cleaning it up first. Check to see how much slop there is between the shaft/rotor bearings and the case. If it's really sloppy like mine was, I would take it down and have it bored out and bushed by a machine shop. The next thing to check is the small spring between the vanes pushing them outwards to contact the case. As cheap insurance, replace this little spring even if it's still intact (they're often broken or even missing). I would double check your dimensions but I believe this is the replacement spring I bought: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K266/.

After that, there's really nothing else to go wrong with it. The only other thing I can think of is the rotor to case clearance though I personally don't think this is worth worrying about too much. The spec is 0.004", mine is more than 0.030" and it still pumps just fine.

Take a pan head screwdriver that fits nicely in the pump shaft slot, cut it off and put it in a drill to drive the pump (clockwise when looking down at the top of the shaft). Stick the pickup in a couple inches of oil and let it rip, as long as it appears that you visually have good flow, you should be in good shape. Once you have the engine all put back together, you can use the screwdriver and drill to prime the oil ways before you install the distributor and fire it up. For reference, my pump puts out ~12 PSI when the oil is cold and drops down to ~8 PSI when the oil gets up to operating temperature (SAE 30) and cruising speed. At idle, it will drop down to 4 or 5 PSI after the engine is warmed up. I'm sure if the rotor/case clearance was tighter, the pump would put out slightly higher pressures however, as long as it registers more than a couple PSI, you should be good to go.

-Tyler

Tyler,
Thanks for the input. I will check all those things. I will post a picture once I’m done.
Jim

Hey buddy, I will swap ya' LOL. Look close, that is a 28 171 under that mouse house. Sucker is still froze but we found Jimmy Hoffa. Yours looks new compared to this thing. The only good news is the engine number matches the title. I will sleeve it if I have to since it is already 40 over. Phish

Phish,
If you ever hear me complaining that my project is not going well, be sure to repost these pictures again. Haha. The person I bought the car off of had been through the engine once before. However, I could get it to turn by hand. I thought it best to tear it open and see what the problem is. Glad I did. None of the bolts were torqued down. I’m eager to see what else was done wrong. Good luck on your project. Keep me posted on how it’s going.
Jim

The '28 motor I'm rebuilding is at + 1/16" already; so, 3 3/4" bore. I have a set of Chevrolet 261 truck pistons to use in my rebuild -the 261 bores are 3 3/4" stock, so the +.020 pistons I have will leave the motor at + 0825" bore. It looks like the block will bore to this OK; will obviously pressure test it before building the motor up. I've attached a couple of photos of a sectioned '28 block showing how thick the cylinder walls are -thanks to Herb Kephart for these photos which were posted on another forum.




The 261 pistons have a slightly taller compression height than the stock piston (1/16" from memory) the compression being raised slightly from (IIRC less than 5:1 stock) won't hurt. The pin diameter of the 261 piston is huge, so will need me to fit bushes fitted to use with the rods' small ends.

That is great to know on the block thickness. One junk yard motor shows +.050, spins nice. So touch hone and reassemble as a spare. The other junk yard motor (froze) has rusted cylinders and we had to beat one piston out. It shows +.040 labeled on pistons. It has the matching block # to tiitle so will take it to 60 over. That one is going to J&M in Ma. Thanks for pics.

Picked up a 28 motor today. Scope showed that it had a valve job on head but stock bore original rings etc. Pulled the pistons and found #2 & #4 had a steel snap ring in the bottom of piston. They do not look homemade. Tabs were pointing out on #4 and pointing in of #2. It's like someone tried to add weight? Balance? Anyone see this? Thanks Stephen

Expanders.
Not about weight or balance. All about clearance.
Used to expand out the thrust faces, reduce clearance, take care of piston slap.

It looks like someone misplaced their '25 or earlier tail light lens retainer clip.

So is that an OEM part? The machinest decides who needs it? Will do some measuring today, see what we have. Thanks

Update. found OEM piston skirt expanders on ebay for 8 bucks. Tree is shady.

Piston skirt expanders are an aftermarket item. They were commonly used in the 30s/40s/50s. There are many different types, even for cast iron pistons. They must have helped, but it's hard to imagine how they did.

Mike

I really don't know how they reliably got the amount of expansion, and thus the piston clearance, they wanted. Maybe a variety of different "strengths" to choose from?
Seems it would be more effective with aluminum than with cast iron.

Doug Bell (who apparently was the president of the VCCA in 1961) wrote in his book "The Cast Iron Wonder" that some mechanics used to lightly clamp cast iron Chevrolet pistons in a vise (in line with the wrist pin) and hit the jaw of the vise with a hammer. That would set more "cam" into the piston and take out some of the piston slap. He claimed they could put .004" to .010" more cam in by doing this, but also said you needed to have spare pistons around because they occasionally broke.

Can someone tell me the specs of the journals on a stock 28 camshaft?

Can someone tell me the specs on the journals on a stock 28 camshaft ?

Here's a page from a '28 Specifications document that I have.

Cheers, Dean

. From Doug Bell's "Early Chevrolet History": Bore = 3-11/16", Stroke = 4", 171 Cu In displacement. Front main = 2-3/4 X 1-1/2", Center main = 2" X 1-31/32, rear = 3-1/8 X 2", Con Rods = 2-1/8 X 1-1/2, Cam bearings: Front = 2-9/16 X 1-5/16, Center = 2" X 1-11/16, Rear = 1-7/8 X 1-1/4. All Valves = 1-1/2". .
. I hope this halps, Lou .

My block is at the machine shop. While I am waiting for that, I have been working on some of the external engine. I’ve decided to record my progress on YouTube. Check out my video on my distributor rebuild. Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Jim

Excellent Video on YouTube Jim. This is going to help me enormously. Thank you. Keep them coming. I have subscribed to your channel.

Thanks Andy! I’m glad I could help. I’ve got a short video coming up about the oil pump. I hope it will be useful.
Jim.

Hi everyone. I’m still waiting for the block to come back from the machine shop. I have been working on some of the smaller engine parts. Here is a video of me testing the oil pump. Let me know what you think, either here or on YouTube. Thanks.

Cool video Jim,
I can't wait to see it again in Summer re-runs.

Mike

Looks good!

Just FYI, one of my two junk yard motor blocks had signs of being froze sometime in its 93 year past. It could be repaired for about $600 but I had another that checked good. Have your guy crack check and pressure test the block. Also one rod is 9 grams out of balance so we are trying another. Thanks for that Rustoholic. Phish

Here’s another video. It goes over rebuilding the head. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

I’m still waiting for the machine shop to finish my block. Is it normal for a shop to take months to bore out 4 cylinders? At any rate, progress on my project has been good. Here is my latest video. It goes over the generator. Enjoy.

Months? I had my six done in a week.

I finally got the block back. The crank and cam are back in. Here is a video of the starter restoration.

Looking good, Jim! Your videos are clear, concise, and informative.

Fun stuff! Cheers, Dean

Thanks, Dean! I’m learning a lot and having fun. Thanks for watching.

Here is how I restored my water pump. I’m curious to know if I put the packing in correctly. Please let me know. Thanks.
Jim

I don't know if there is a right way and wrong way to put in the packing. I chose to put it in the nut before assembling the water pump.

I put the nut on loosely so as not to drag too much. Later, when I finally fired up Lurch's engine, it leaked a little so at that point I only tightened the nut enough to stop the leaking. After driving around a while, the pump started leaking again so I tightened up the nut a little more and that took care of it.

One thing that you did not mention in your video was whether you drilled a hole in the front bushing so that oil from the little reservoir can drip down and lubricate the pump shaft as it spins in that front bushing. Every time I go for a drive, I pull the dipstick out of the engine, DO NOT wipe off the end of the stick, and let a couple of drops of engine oil (10W-30) drip into that oil reservoir that is under the fan pulley of the water pump.

Here's a link to the part of my engine build where I show the hole in the front bushing and also how I put the packing in: Rebuilding a '28 water pump for Lurch

Cheers, Dean

Dean, I responded to your comment on YouTube, but thought I should respond here too, incase some one is following this thread. I did not drill a hole in the front bushing because the original did not have one. But now that you mention it, it seems like a good idea. I need to flip the fan mounting plate; so I will will drill it when I take that part off as well as the pulley.

I have a question. When putting the bottom flywheel cover on, is a gasket necessary?
Thanks
Jim

As long as you use a sintered bronze bearing (Oilite) or equivalent there is no need to drill the hole. Yes I know we commonly call them bushings but technically they are bearings. Any oil added to the depression will seep through the passages to the shaft/bearing (bushing) interface. If you use put a drop or two of oil on the shaft at the bearing everytime you check the engine oil level (at least daily) then there is no need to put oil in the depression.

Howdy,

I made my comment about drilling the hole in the front bearing based on my belief that the replacement bearing in the rebuild kit that I used in Lurch's rebuild was brass.

I just called the Filling Station and confirmed that the bearings in rebuild kits they sell for these water pumps are made from brass. They said that bronze bearings are not available from their supplier of the rebuild kits.

Soooo, ya gotta drill the hole to enable oil to lubricate the front bearing.

Good discussion.

Ever onward, Dean

Thanks guys for the information. It is very helpful and I will try to mention it in my next video. I’m sure others will find it helpful as well.
What about the bottom flywheel cover, should I use a gasket?

I did not use a gasket for the bottom flywheel cover. But I already knew that there would be oil dripping there! ;-)

Cheers, Dean

I purchased 2 1928's this year I am loving this thread and videos!!

Thats great Terry! I guess I should post my most recent video here too. I’m making slow but steady progress. I hope yours are coming along as well. Here is the link to my new video.

Here is how I got my new pistons ready to be put back in the block. 28 Chevy Engine Assembly part 2

Hello all, I have been working on the motor still, but have not posted any videos. I didn’t think it wise to post videos on how to rebuild one of these things without first making sure I can get one to run.
So I’m in the process of attempting to start the motor. It seems like the starter does not have enough power to turn the motor. It does turn but not smoothly. It moves almost in bursts. I hope I’m being clear.
If someone has had a similar experience and can offer some advice, it would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

That is not unusual. If you have not had the starter recently serviced now would be a good time.

Check that you have a good ground connection (corrosion happens) and that the battery wires are large enough to handle the current. The 6 volt systems require larger wire than the 12v systems.

I had to do some work to Lurch's starter when I did the engine rebuild a few years ago. Here's a link to that part of the story: Cleaning up Lurch's starter.

Ever onward, Dean

Do you know the condition of the field coils? I ask because I replaced mine with some cheap replacements I got off of ebay (I ended up destroying the originals when pulling the starter apart) and they did not cut it, it barely turned the engine over. I took it to a local starter/alternator rebuild shop (which I should have done to start with) and he had a spare set, worked great after that.

-Tyler

Tyler's comments reminded me of something.

If you take your starter to a re-builder, make sure you tell them NOT to paint over the nameplate.

I forgot this gem and am sorry that I did.

Cheers, Dean

And tell them NOT to chisel the old tag off to put on a re-builder's tag!

Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions. I opened the starter back up. I put the armature on the lathe to resurface the commutator with some 600 grit sand paper. Then I cleaned out the gaps on the commutator. I swapped in a set of new brushes, and put everything back together. Man, that motor really spins now. But, does not start. I’m going to keep working on it to figure out the next piece of the puzzle. Thanks again for the help.
Jim

Howdy,

This electrical check out procedure from Chipper might help. Although written for a 6 cylinder, it works for the 4 bangers as well.

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/285347/re-1950-wont-start.html#Post285347

Timing is critical too. Here's a post that describes that area: Timing for a four cylinder engine discussion

Cheers, Dean

So the starter is fixed. I have good spark and fuel delivery. The issue I am having now is that I can’t get the motor to spin fast enough while all the spark plugs are in. Without the plugs in, it spins freely with ease. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Remove the coil wire and try to turn the engine over. If it turns over; then I would check your timing.(way too far advanced) If it still doesn't turn over I would look at voltage drops through the battery cables and ground connection at the engine block and frame.

I agree with Steve.

When starting these engines, it is VERY important that the spark happen AT or SLIGHTLY AFTER top dead center. Always fully retard the spark lever for starting.

If the spark happens before TDC, the burning of the fuel/air mixture will try to push the crankshaft backwards and will fight the starter motor.

Only after the engine is running for a few moments should the spark be advanced to happen before TDC.

Fingers crossed for you, Dean

Steve and Dean,
Thank you for all the help. The steering column is not hooked up to the distributor. It needs to be worked in still. I have read that fully retard is when the steering column lever is pointed all the way towards the driver, but what does that look like on the distributor? Should the distributor lever be pointed towards the passenger side or the driver side? I hope I am being clear on that question. Let me know if I am not and I will try to clarify. Thanks.
Jim

On a truck spark lever (under the steering wheel and sticking out from the steering column), it is fully retarded when it is pulled down towards the driver. I'm not sure about the linkage connection for a car with the lever in the middle of the steering wheel.

You can check it yourself, though. The distributor is retarded when it is pushed clockwise (looking down on it) and advanced when it is pulled counter-clockwise. Check to see what position the spark lever is in when you turn the distributor one way and the other.

Cheers, Dean