VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Getting a Modified Car Judged?

I'm new to the club. I understand you like completely original cars. I have a 70 Vette convertible that may do fairly good at your judging. Everything appears stock but the block is out of a 77 Chevy truck. But what I'd really like to have judged is a 1957 Bel Air Chevy. It's not original but appears close. It has wrong color on exterior & interior. Engine is basically stock except for an alternator, power steering & brakes and aluminum valve covers. How do I get this car modified Chevy judged at one of your shows? I was told it was possible by joining another club, paying an additional $17. Know anything about this???

I do not know who specifically you can contact, but look into the Personalized Chevy Chapter. They are the group for modified cars. They do have specific rules on what can and needs to be modified to qualify for an award and they only judge at some events, but someone from that chapter will be able to give you more specifics.

While there are many members that enjoy the challenge of an authentic restoration, there are also a large number of members with customized cars. Anyone that enjoys Vintage Chevrolets are welcome in the club, so we are glad to have you.


Below is the url for the Personalized Chapter website. Hopefully you can find your answer there or someone with a little more knowledge in this area will chime in.

https://pccvcca.org/

From the sounds of it you might be able to pass in the CDPC class the only thing would be the valve covers they might not "certify" the engine compartment for that, but the other things you mentioned about the engine compartment is allowed to be done for convince in this class. Is the paint close to what was offered in 1957? if so it would pass as well, but if it is something that is not close to what was offered by Chevrolet you might not "certify" in exterior as well I believe you have to "certify" in either category to be awarded the CDPC which stands for Chevrolet Driver Participation Class

I'd been a member of Classic Chevy International for about 40+yrs. Then Eckler's bought them out. They continued the judging shows for 10 - 15 yrs, then decided to not have show anymore. They had judged classes for any car that really wanted judged. I was hoping to have this 57 judged thru VCCA but appears I can't? I'm planning on going to Nashville to check out what goes on at one of your events. I like cars that are driven and still show quality

When you attend a VCCA show ask the Chief Judge about the best option for getting you car evaluated or judged. The VCCA judging system is not one of the most critical out there. We all appreciate driver class Chevys that are not 100% original but used and enjoyed by the owners. I haven't had a Chevy judged in many years as I know more about the condition and correctness than any team of judges. I show them for others to see and enjoy. The boxes of awards in the attic keep the critters company.

I will be at the Nashville show with my 1915 Baby Grand Look me up (I will be the youngest owner with the oldest car wont be hard to miss haha) and if you have pictures or bring the car there I can go through it with you and give you which way I would put it through judging in VCCA I have been around VCCA my whole life and have Judged all the class except the Personalized Chapter but I have read their sheet and talked with people about it.

I thought I'd be good to get in the Personalized Chevy judging
since I really have a lot of changes but most of them don't count. I'm also in to Corvette judging (Bloomington Gold & NCRS) and all the changes to my car would be major in their way of judging. I'll be at Nashville in a few days now and I we see how it goes.

The VCCA tries to be an open and friendly organization for all Chevrolet and GMC owners. Some "old farts" are just loud and irritating but if you can hold your breath fresh air is with the next person you meet. Any judging is a learning experience for all, owner and judges. Mistakes will happen but if you are tolerant and forgiving it can be a pleasurable experience. Might have a "nit" comb just in case?

Well, went to Nashville show, decided not to get judged in the 1000 point original class because of; loss of too many points for engine, transmission, tires. These would have put me in the 850 point range so I went in the driver's class. Didn't like it although I did get a very nice plaque. I still think VCCA is missing out on a bunch of members because of not having judging for modified cars like mine. My local club of 35 members, I could only talk one member into joining (and his car is stock). All the others have 1950 to 1964 Chevys that are modified similar to mine. Several like being judged but would have to go in the driver class (CDPC) so they won't join.

While it would be nice to have lots of new members if they do not have the same interest or reason for joining then it would not benefit either the VCCA or the potential member. While we do have a 'personalized vehicle" chapter the main focus and mission of the club is for the restoration and preservation of original Chevrolet features. There are many benefits to the VCCA besides judging so I don't know if they are aware of that. I don't participate in judging at all so not sure if there are judged shows for personalized cars.

There's only a few of the members of my local club who are interested in having their car judged. They all have Chevys! Most of us like to get our cars out and drive them. I would think you would want to grow the VCCA and I just think your missing out on several members. I like going to the conventions, regionals and the activities that are planned, hopefully I can talk more of my local members to join.

Since you have a low posting numbers you most likely were not around when the officials in the club wanted to allow modified vehicles,you would have thought it was the end of the world and yes there is some allowance of modifieds now but since this club started out for only originals old habits die hard so I doubt there will ever be what you would call open arms towards modified vehicles at the shows. Your best bet would probably be to join a chapter since they would probably be more forgiving then the main club,I was suprised that the local chapter of the AACA came to me wanting me to join and I have nothing that is all original and that club is just like the VCCA but since I probably will never show at a major show I just hang with the locals.

Rxmalott,
The VCCA is actively trying to get more people like you and your local group to join. There are a lot of current members that are "original only" people, but there are also many great members with modified cars.

If you are more into tours, I highly suggest finding your closest region and get involved there. My local region (Lower Michigan Region) has 3 tours a year and with more members would love to host more. We usually have a number of modified cars and there is always some friendly ribbing between the modified and original members but it is always in good fun.

To be honest, I am one of the "all original" guys, but I am also not a fan of the judging. I go to the National Meets for the camaraderie. The reason I am into old cars is the same as you, driving them. The club recently (a number of years ago now) started a tour program with awards for driving your car.

https://vcca.org/page/touring?&hhsearchterms=%22passport%22&#rescol_4624881

Also, the personalized chapter judging is very much in it's infancy. The best way to improve the club is getting involved and the personalized chapter is a great place to do it. It has a great potential for the club and the only way their judging program will mature is with more participation.

Please don't let one less than great experience dissuade you or your friends. The VCCA really is a great club and we NEED newer members to bring new blood and new ideas!

References"

a. Chipper's post above wherein he Uttered, "Some "old farts" are just loud and irritating but if you can hold your breath fresh air is with the next person you meet." I can't believe you made such a statement. You okay? Read on.

b. Steve D: re your post above.

There are many of us out here who embrace the notion of restoration and preservation as a good thing and have thought and continue to think that such original intent by the formation of VCCA was primarily for that reason and purpose.

While we old farts appreciate the fact that VCCA may need to broaden its stated purpose and scope, we much prefer to keep it close as possible to its chartered purpose. We, who place great pleasure, satisfaction and pride in the preservation and restoration of our old Chevrolets are not hostile to those now in the club who don't give a rat's behind for originality. Out sensibility for others who do not think as we do tempers such feelings. To paint us with such a broad brush and label us with such hurtful terms as "Old farts, "Loud," and "Irritating" is unwarranted and insulting. Well, seems so.

Simply because we have our interest focused on originality and preservation, when that was the intent for the formation of the club in the frist place, is rather cruel and begs satisfaction. Chose your weapon and I'll see you at dawn on the Bowling Green, that is, If I can find a second and/or still living.

In all seriousness, I know the club is expanding its focus and people like me will soon be gone and the club will eventually not be recognizable for its original and intended purpose. it will be skewed far beyond recognition. Will too!

Chipper, maybe you're correct after all. I can see how some will watch me and likeminded folk, pass by the modified groups of old Chevrolet's with so much as a glance in search of the preserved and restored ones that [bleeped] our interest. Please forgive us our sins.

I just don't understand how, after letting into the club modified Chevrolet's and their owners who only want to personalize them (whatever extent applies), we of the preservation and restoration bent are now the enemy and, as such, open to insults and misunderstanding, with any apparent sanction. Mercy!

Best,

Charlie

BTW: I do hope that the above does not serve for Chipper to point his finger and say, "see." It was not my intention to make his case for him but rather merely shoot from the heart for us old farts re the instant matter. Nothing more. I assume that I have spoken for likeminded members, which may not be in the majority any more.

I love a good Charlie Rant!

I've always said that the best thing about this club is that there is a lot of something for everyone. If 1000 point restorations is your thing, head out to a show. If driving your car, (modified or not)and seeing the country is your thing, join a tour! The best thing for the club is for the people involved in all of the different "factions" to do their best in a positive way to move their faction forward. Don't use negativity to try and hold the other areas back.

Are you concerned about the lack of early restored cars featured in the G&D? Don't complain about it... get the computer out, and submit an article about your early Chevrolet.

Want to have a show for modified cars? Set one up... Post it on the forum and in the G&D, and we'll all show up!

How about a Thriftmaster Truck tour? Any of our truck owners ever felt they'd like their own tour? Set it up... we'll be there!!

Rxmalott, you should check out the Happy Days Tour, every May. (well, maybe not next May!) for an event that sounds like it covers your interests.

NCRS, in an attempt to bolster a declining # of members, instituted a "Concours Judging Division" about 5 years ago. the concourse cars are , for the most part, Restomod'd Corvettes. A good many older NCRS members don't care for this judging of modified cars. Since it was felt this new judging category would help increase the membership numbers, few oldtimers objected vehemently. Unfortunately, just a handful of concourse cars have shown up at Regional and National meets in the last 5 years. . i must admit, there have been a couple of these resto mods that were obviously constructed by master craftsmen. Like the VCCA, the purpose of NCRS has been the restoration and preservation of Corvettes as built on assembly lines. I personally have tolerated the modified corvettes and will do so with VCCA modified chevys. mike mccagh

I'm a recent VCCA member. I joined because you have Personalized Chevy judging, for one thing. I've had a Chevy of some type since 1962 and almost all of them had some type of modifications. I like the stock look but with my own little changes. I think since Classic Chevy (Eckler's) is no longer the club that most Chevy guys were members of that many could join VCCA. They like me no longer have Regionals show to go to but (after this Covid thing is over), VCCA does. I like all types of Chevys, old, new, original, Modified, Customs and even Restomods!

Actually, I'm an "Ole Fart", I'm 75. I really like to see the all original's (55-to around 64). I like to judge them and know what I'm looking for, I've restored several. But I also like to buy a good used one and fix it up. This usually is easier to do if it's modified somewhat. I use good swap meet parts as much as possible. All this leads to restoring a Chevy that is modified but I saved the car from being crushed. Thus, I like them all...original or modified, main thing it's a Chevy!

New Sleeper Class for Personalized Chevies. Thought...now, I can get my Chevy judged. Here's the e-mail I just received; It appears I won't be able to get this 57 Chevy judged again?

Rex,

Upgrading the engine does not mean replacing a six with an eight that was available from the factory that year. If you read our judging form you would know that. Nobody knows that your car came with a six (unless you tell them). They would judge the performance of your car based on a typical 283 which was fairly common in 1957. Although you made many reliability upgrades (& some visual ones), only the electronic ignition “may” have any impact on performance and that would hardly count. You may have increased the performance of your car compared to how your ”˜57 was delivered from the factory (with a 6) but you didn’t increase the performance compared to another standard V8 model from 1957 that is rolling down the street. If you were really interested in “sleeper” performance then a 300HP 327cu in engine (available starting in 1962) would have been an easy swap and look pretty much stock.


You are welcome to register at the Central Meet in the PCC Participation class. This is for display and not for judging. Your car is gorgeous and should be shown.


Regards,

Ron


From: Rex Malott [mailto:malott57@att.net]
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2021 11:22 AM
To: Ron Marciano; Rex Malott
Subject: Re: Personalized Chevrolet Chapter (PCC) Newsletter



Ron, My 57 Chevy was originally a 6 cylinder. The vin number is C57A199734VID which proves it came from the factory with a 6 cylinder. It has a rebuilt 1960 / 283 engine; electronic ignition system, alternator, 605 power steering, aftermarket power brakes, 350 automatic transmission, polished aluminum 4 core radiator with thermostatic controlled electric fan, polished finned aluminum valve covers. This is not just a normal 283 engine. I have the receipts from the shop that rebuilt the engine for $9,600.31. I just don't understand why it wouldn't be considered a "Sleeper"?? Rex

Went to the Lima show and again could not get my car judged. I think it's a shame that there's not a class for a modified Chevy with only the engine compartment modified. I think two or three more classes should be added to let Chevys like mine be judged. The Club is missing out on many Chevy's like mine.

When I was on the Judging Committee all Chevrolets (and later GMCs) could be judged as long as they could pass field entrance with a fire extinguisher. They might have so many points deducted that they were not eligible for an award but they could be judged.

Didn't know that that policy changed but it has been 20 years since I was removed from the Committee.

Oh I could be judged but the problem is; The engine area since it's modified will lose several points for engine, then transmission, then radial tires, etc....and before the car even gets to the judging field I've already lost about 200 points. If I had a class different than original, like Contemporary or mild custom, I'd be in the 950 plus area. I don't want a score in the 700's when I actually have a really nice car. So, I just went in Driver's class to avoid the confrontation.

What is the status of judging cars that belong to the VCCA's Personalized Chevrolet Non-Geographic Chapter?

Dean

The status is that it doesn't fit in any of the current categories. Sold the car at the Tri-Five Nationals on Thursday. Yesterday (Wednesday), I bought another 1957 Chevy....but this time it's a Truck! And is it modified....Yes! It has a 350 engine, 700 R tranny and a 9 inch Ford rearend. Custom interior. Custom paint. Mag wheels. I'll get this judged at the next show in my area. Still believe the club is missing out on several thousands of Chevy's that's modified like the one I sold.

I have been late to this party, so to speak. I'm the current director of the Personalized Chevy Chapter and I just read all the comments in this thread. Every VCCA class (stock, HPOCF, CDPC & PCC) has their own rules. I appreciate that it can be frustrating to find out that your Chevy does not "fit in" with any of these classes. There are reasons for these rules. As far as the PCC is concerned, we had to provide some "separation" between our class and the stock & CDPC classes. We did not want a vehicle to win an award in class judging, for example, and then qualify for a PCC award. Same for CDPC. That is why we require 3 significant "visual" mods to qualify for the contemporary class. This would prevent qualification in class judging at the same time. Also, we do not count "reliability" mods like CDPC accepts. If your vehicle qualifies for a class judging award or CDPC certification, it is unlikely it will qualify for PCC judging. This is by design. However, a well restored vehicle with at least a few major visible mods would do well in PCC judging. Mods can't be from the same model/year (or they would not be recognizable as a mod without a VIN analysis).

Our website (pccvcca.org) has all kinds of information including a slideshow of past winners so that a prospective PCC member could see what might be expected for judging. Our judging form lists "countable" mods for the exterior, interior, engine bay & chassis. This was intended to help the member understand what we are looking for. It's a good idea to read over these acceptable mods before asking questions. The number of mods determines the class but only the condition determines the award (junior/senior).

The sleeper class is a new addition this year. It is for stock-looking vehicles with replacement engines (e.g., small block V8 in a pre-1955 or a big block in a pre-1958) or a documented "built" engine. We already have a few candidates.

My exterior per the Trim Tag numbers states the color should be Dusk Pearl but the color has been changed to a Turquoise. It actually is not the exact match to 1957 Chevy Tropical Turquoise but I was told it's close enough that it doesn't count as an Exterior change. Would "Blue Dot" tail light lenses count as a change? Or maybe orange parking lenses with Chevy emblems?? I hate to spent $1,000 for mag wheels.

The interior per the Trim Tag numbers states it should be Silver and Black but I have Turquoise & black. I was told that's OK, it doesn't count as a change. The gauges under the dash are OK too. Don't count. AM/FM/ cassette tape don't count either. The portable center console, nope not count...it's OK too. If I put a Sun Tack on the dash would it count as a interior change? Or how about dice push-down locks on door locks? I'm trying not to spend a lot of money on a custom steering wheel.

My engine counts as One change for judging in the PCC per judges at both Nashville & Lima. I need changes in three categories.

Sold the car at the Tri-Five Nationals.