I’ve sent you my email address. Thanks for the help on this.
Based on the heritage photos and other comments, I’m beginning to think that the seats from around 1938 through around 1942 used welted seams on the edges with no seam across the front. The material used was a smooth vinyl or so it looks from the pictures. Because I have not seen any photos or comments otherwise, I tend to believe that seats using a rough pebble style vinyl tend to have additional welting across the front of the seat. This is true with the seat I found on my 1940 1/2 ton truck. The seat I have is well upholstered with burlap and stuffing through out the springs, burlap and cotton stuffing on top with a black pebble vinyl and welting around the sides, across the front as well as the vertical edges. It looks to have been undisturbed since it was installed but no indication of age.
Also, from about 1934 -1937, I found welting on all edges of the seat. So there might be some carryover through the ages.... of course the pictures do not indicate the top material finish or type. The GM Heritage site has a number of brochures that show the details.
I see what you mean. I've been to the GM website and looked through the brochures. That said, I think we need to be careful about what we see there for these reasons: The illustrations are not actually pictures. They are drawings and/or heavily air brushed photos and as such were open to some "speculative interpretation" by the artists. John Deere brochures were nototious for this and often turned a "picture" of a previous model into the new model (like an 820 diesel into an 830) with an air brush. Also, sometimes they didn't update the illustrations from previous years when they should have. For example, the 1938 and 1939 brochures show the 1937 split seat. I believe the 38 seat was already 1 piece as the gas filler was no longer under the seat. And, I still think it likely Chev would want to show their best and as such the seat shown may have been the optional leather covered seat rather than the standard leatherette. That would explain the smooth look to the seat without the welted front edge, and the "pebbled" seat with the welting. Anyway, I suppose some would think it's silly to obsess over details like this... but I think it's therapeutic. Almost like a sort of meditation! :-)
Okay, think we have the picture posting issue solved, so here goes... Hi Mike First... I didn't realize how ratty my seats looked until I took pictures! Second, now that everybody can see the material, color, and sewing... are they original? The hair mat and cotton batting are both still there under the leatherette but getting a little worse for wear. Third, I was wrong, the edge of the back rest is in 3 pieces and double sewn the same as the edge on the bottom cushion. Hope this has helped.
Being that your truck is a 1946, I would still need to find out about a 1940. Were they all the bench seats the same? Were the brochure only showing artist conceptions and not the actual seats? Because my seats (which are definitely old) and look a lot like yours (except black) does that mean my 1940 truck actually might have the original seats? And welting on all seams including the front....
I have been reading this thread with much interest...I may be way off base here, and forgive me if this sounds dumb, but who actually manufactured the seats ? As with dashboard clocks, there were 2 or 3 different manufacturers . If there were 2 or 3 suppliers of seats, maybe that is why there are subtle variations ??? I am sure we could get more input from Gene or upholstery experts. Just throwing in my 2 cents worth. Thank you.
Being that your truck is a 1946, I would still need to find out about a 1940. Were they all the bench seats the same? Were the brochure only showing artist conceptions and not the actual seats? Because my seats (which are definitely old) and look a lot like yours (except black) does that mean my 1940 truck actually might have the original seats? And welting on all seams including the front....
Love those details.....
Only the shadow knows......
WOW, Have not heard from the Shadow for good many years. Wonder how many know what/who you are referring too !!!!
Clement: "...I may be way off base here," I think you are probably completely on base here and I've wondered the same thing. And I don't think it's a dumb question at all, it's a very good one. I've also wondered why some cabs are painted crinkly brown inside while others like mine look like a marbled grey. Different day and different paint batch? Or different place of manufacture?
Rabaut: "does that mean my 1940 truck actually might have the original seats?" I would love to see pictures of your seats too. It really sounds to me like yours may well be original.
XLVIIdriver: I'm of course not so old as to have heard the original broadcasts, but we have a radio station up here that plays The Shadow and others after midnite! :-) By the way, I assume you drive a 47, is it a car or truck?
[quote= XLVIIdriver: I'm of course not so old as to have heard the original broadcasts, but we have a radio station up here that plays The Shadow and others after midnite! :-) By the way, I assume you drive a 47, is it a car or truck?[/quote]
Well I do remember listening to the program on radio. Both my 47s are cars. 4dr Fleetline (Sportmaster) and a Aerosedan
The first three pictures show the seams on the seat and the vinyl texture. The welt seam runs along the entire top of the seat including the front and sides toward the back. The vertical seam can also be seen in the middle of the seat front. The forth picture is of a sandwich consisting of a burlap type weave filled with a moss like filler. This was woven between the springs, The last picture is of the top edge of the back showing the welt seam running up the side with nothing going across the back. The covering was made up of a layer of burlap, covered with a cotton batting then the vinyl covering.
Because of all the variables discussed above, I wouldn't want to bet the farm on whether your seat is or isn't factory. But I certainly don't see anything there to say that it isn't! Sure would like to hear from more people out there.
I recently received a email from Barry Weeks with a series of pictures from Mark Yeamans who believes he has an original seat. I’m posting his pictures with his permission. Thanks Mark.
Marks Pictures show that the welting does not go across the front of the seat. It seems to me that there two types of welting placement. The first is entirely along the top edges both on the front and sides (as in my seat pictures)with the back welting all around also and the second type with the welting just on the sides as in Marks photos with the welting on the back just on the edges. My seats actually seem to be a combination of both.
I’m still at a loss for the type, texture of the material. I’m making my own covers so any sources out there would be appreciated.
Here is my latest attempt. Please excuse the colors, I’m using scrap material...
I think I have missed something in this thread. Is there a concern with the upholstery kits offered by suppliers like Chev of the 40's, Jim Carter truck parts, or Classic Parts?
Not from my view point. I would just like to know what the original processes and materials were used in these cars. If I have the skill set or would like to acquire it, I like to try and make the item myself. The truck seats are an example of that. The suppliers have a wealth of information and many of the parts I need so I am very appreciative of them. Sometimes though I get frustrated with them when I cannot get a sample of the paint or seat material sample to see what I am buying before I make a purchase. I have asked with no cooperation only that I need to just buy the paint or seat cover. With all of the knowledge and experience we have in these forums hopefully someone would have the information I need. That’s why I’m posting.
What year truck was the seat from that Barry Weeks sent pictures of? I'm looking at the 6th picture you posted from Barry, a close up of the rear corner of the bottom cushion I believe, and also looking at the 2nd picture I posted which is the top corner of my back rest. To my eye the texture of the 2 materials looks pretty close to being the same. Slight color difference but pretty close there too. So... same material, different welting pattern! Interesting.
Not from my view point. I would just like to know what the original processes and materials were used in these cars. If I have the skill set or would like to acquire it, I like to try and make the item myself. The truck seats are an example of that.
Well... The trouble is that the original materials are just not available. "Leatherette" and similar things of the 30s and 40s were often made of Pyroxylin (nitrocellulose). Fabrikoid (USA), Rexine (UK) are examples of that. There was also oilcloth (some form of Linseed oil I think) and at least one proprietary mixture that was neither, but nobody really knows what it was either. What *none* of these things were is Poly Vinyl Chloride, AKA Vinyl, as is most of the "expanded vinyl" available now. I understand some of the even more recent materials may be Urethane or Acrylic.
I have been down the leatherette rabbit hole pretty deep, and I don't believe you can currently buy anything pyroxylin-based, or any traditional oilcloth. Supposedly the machine that made Rexine has been found and restored, but good luck finding anything that comes from it. I imagine that it is super expensive (used for body fabric on old Bentleys and so on), but have never seen any for sale and I have looked. Pyroxylin was used until fairly recent times for bookcloth, but as near as I can tell all is acrylic now.
I worked in an auto trim shop for a while when I was young, and have made quite a few seat covers about like the ones in this thread. IMHO modern expanded vinyl, while the closest thing available. feels completely different. It stretches in just about any direction, and stretches more on the bias than old leatherette, which is pretty stiff. It feels different when you run your hand over it, too. When it breaks in, it tends to move and stretch around a lot.
IMHO vinyl never holds up the prewar illusion very long.
If I were making that cover, I would use high quality leather. I would match the original grain as closely as possible, and go for a stiffer leather if possible. I don't know how it would affect points in VCCA judging. That is a question for someone with VCCA judging experience. The upside is that as it starts to age, it will still look and feel like something that could have existed before the war.
Originally Posted by Rabaut
With all of the knowledge and experience we have in these forums hopefully someone would have the information I need. That’s why I’m posting.
I love threads like this. The pictures that have been posted will be useful to others for years to come.
Me? To my eye, your grain and Mark Yeamans look very similar. I'd go with that. Both look like prewar leatherette of some kind. Mark's really leaves no doubt because of the way it crumbles away in the bad spots, and has those long cracks in the good spots. I would be willing to bet my lunch that Mark's is original, and I strongly suspect yours is too.
I took some pictures of original leatherette used for things like carpet binding, lower seat trim wraps, bottom of door panels, etc. on a bunch of prewar and early postwar Pontiacs at a national ETC meet last year. The material is thinner and has less grain because of the places it is used, but the effects of age look exactly like Mark's pictures. Another thing that happens on this thinner, less grainy material is that the pattern of the backing fabric tends to telegraph through with age.
Mike, I agree with everything bloo says. I've sat many hours on many old seats I personally knew to be originals, including old John Deeres, F*rds, even a F*argo. And wore several of them out. We won't be able to match the feel, but we can try to match the look. I like the leather idea and I've considered that at times myself. Shouldn't be a problem with judging. I'm not sure about 1940 as my 1940 Data Book is at the farm, but leather was definitely a factory option for 1941 and 46. Fortunately there are upholstery suppliers that can match the pattern of what's left of your seat very closely. If you'd like a link to one I've found in particular that looks very good to me, let me know. But I'd run it past bloo before you do anything as he is quite obviously the one I'll be wanting to consult with in the future!
