VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1961-1964 1963 impala - radiator

has anyone had any experience with the original equipment replacement radiator from jegs?..it looks like a correct replacement size-wise...

i also found a four-row radiator at eckler's...anyone have any experience with this one for a 327 & powerglide?..

Did you check with Show Cars in Minnesota? They seem to have a good selection of "correct" looking reproduction parts. The radiator I purchased from them 20 years ago for my 348 is performing perfectly

I have used radiators from Classic Industries, Jeg's and Summit with no issues, 3 row and 4 row, as well as a correct 409" radiator from Show Cars that had the correct sloping top.

They all looked and worked as original with no issues.

I no longer use Eckler's as I posted a honest review stating that I felt their shipping charges were inflated, especially with the "if it fits, it ships" pricing from the
USPS. On several of my orders the cost they added was more than double the going rate. Very small parts that went inside an envelope. I understand that
there is manpower and overhead to account for, but compared to other suppliers who have similar costs, Eckler's was over 2X comparable shipping.

Anyway, they deleted my comments and sent me note that they do not allow negative reviews. When I looked at their website again, sure enough, there
was nothing but glowing remarks. This makes it impossible to see how they really perform. To me it matters, and the best way to express your concern is
with your wallet, which I did.

Bobalouie

I agree Bob, I too avoid Eckler's shipping is WAY OVERPRICED, and technical support is not there AT ALL, and I am talking about a simple question that they could not answer.

I just checked the Show Cars catalog and they don't list a small block radiator.

thank you both for your helpful comments, bobalouie and john...I will contact eckler's and inquire about the shipping on their radiator, since they even mention on the webpage that "this item has additional shipping charges due to heavy weight or oversize dimensions"...

they quoted $52 for ground shipping plus an $11 shipping surcharge...the base shipping sounds about right, but since it ships direct from the manufacturer, the surcharge is just extra revenue for them...I may still order it from them, but I wonder why they don't choose to be more direct and just increase the item price by eleven dollars?..

If you know the manufacturer of the radiator, you may be able to contact them directly and avoid middleman upcharges...just a thought. Good luck
on your project!

Bob

Any chance of having yours re-cored?

yes, that's possible...i haven't actually pulled the radiator to see where the pinhole leak is, but the tanks still look excellent from the outside...over the recent years, most of the old radiator shops around here have closed, leaving just the newer shops that mostly like to work on modern cars...I called one the other day in a nearby town and he said it would be anywhere from $500 - $750, if I brought the radiator in removed from the car...so I thought, well for that kind of money, I may as well get a new radiator...my guess would be that any new radiator may not be as well made as my original harrison, but the old radiator is almost sixty years old and the tanks are probably are't as good as they once were, either (I sound like toby keith)...but maybe I should try calling another shop...thanks for the suggestion...

You might want to try https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/products/make/chevrolet/model/impala !
They have a good reputation on the tryfive site.

thanks for the tip, p.k....

I had looked at their site...they offer aluminum radiators that they claim will look original after painting...has anyone used one of these and found that to be the case?..and were there any issues with mounting and fit?..

finally, is the aluminum two row as effective as the brass & copper 4 row?..

the price is appealing, as it's only 2/3 the cost of the brass & copper radiators...

I would personally have a shop look at it first. It might only need the pinhole fixed, and get away with having it boiled out. If your going to replace you still are going to have to take it out regardless.

thanks for the advice, john...yes, it's worth a shot...

I drove three towns over to the last remaining old-time radiator shop that is still operating around here...unfortunately, the owner said that it's leaking from the core and can't be repaired...he also pointed out that it is a two-row (i had always assumed it was three)...was this the standard radiator for a 327/250 w/o ac?..

An old school shop should be able to install a new core in your rad. Is your rad too far gone or just too expensive to do a recore vs a replacement rad?

the tanks are in good shape and can be re-cored, but buying a new oer from jegs would be over $200 less...

I have purchased OEM style radiators from Jegs for a '62 Impala, a '65 Malibu, a '62 Nova and a '64 Belair. All cooled well and fit and looked as original.
My cars were drivers, not show cars, but I had no issues. For the price difference, I went with the 4 core radiators, although I was not having a cooling
issue with the stock radiators. All cars were 327" motors, with approx. 360hp, 4sp and autos. I would buy one again, for what it's worth. Bobalouie

the only four row radiators offered by jegs and the manufacturer, oer, are designated for the 409...would a 409 radiator fit, since I have a 327?..

bob, did the four row fit well in your '62?..

Yes, it did fit I bought a '62 Impala that originally had a 327" and was replaced with a 409". They did not change the radiator when they made the
switch, so I installed the HD, correct 409" radiator. It was a direct bolt-in replacement. I also did the same thing in a '64 Belair that originally had a 6 cylinder, replacing it with a 409"...no issues, but I did use the fan shroud as the 409" fan shroud is about 1" shorter to allow for the longer water pump on the 409"
versus the small block V8 or 6 cylinder motors.

Hope this helps, Bob

thanks, bob...that's great news...

i have a powerglide, so I hope that the cooler ports are in the same place for the lines...and I assume the upper and lower hose diameters and locations are the same?..

I was doing 4 speed cars, so I can't remember if you have to order the radiator for a auto or a manual. 409" cars did come with both, so
I would guess you still can order the radiator with the proper fitting outlets, and them may have one radiator, and if you are using it with
an auto, just plug those outlets. Yes, the hose diameters were the same. Bob

since you used the four-row, it must have been notched to clear the steering gear box?..

I know that I didn't have to do anything extra to install it...just bolt in and go. My car did not have power steering, though.

If you call Show Cars they should be able to answer all your questions. Very nice people to deal with in my experience.

Bob

thanks, bob...i'm not familiar with "show cars"...how do I contact them?..

Show Cars phone no. 5073541958. Email at showcars@newulmtel.net

great...

thanks, jon...

A/C 327 cars had the the same radiator as the 409 cars. The factory radiators had a three row core but, the tubes were larger, more surface area to cool with four rows then three. The core dimensions are the same, internally is the difference. I think their radiator is around $400 plus shipping. When you order ask for Bruce. they are the best vendors for these cars, mostly deal in 409's and 348's

my conversation with them yesterday was helpful and their price is good...I was surprised that they ship via usps at a cost of $80...

but thanks, john...I can order with confidence now...

Only the 300hp 327s John. 250hp 327s with A/C did not get that radiator.

Verne

Correct, my mistake for not being clearer, thanks

jon, john, & verne,
'
thanks again for the good advice...I finally had a chance to call bruce and my radiator is on its way...

Just to be clear, The 4 row "409" radiator that Show Cars sells does have a thicker core than OEM. The edges of the tank straps have to be trimmed away where they fold around the original core. Photo is of an original.
Verne

yesterday, i installed the new 409 radiator from show cars...but when i went to connect the "gm" stamped upper radiator hose today, i learned that the radiator inlet is three inches further outboard than my original 327 radiator...the lower outlet and hose are perfect...the upper hose is too short (the offset is no longer correct because of the inlet location...

i'm hoping there is a different, molded upper hose available as a fix for the problem?..

If someone reproduces the upper hose for a 300hp 327 with A/C, it will fit fine because those cars used a "409" radiator. Hose part number 3826902

Verne

couldn't i just use a 409 radiator hose?..what is the difference?..

The difference is slight. The 409 is a little longer than the 327 so the outlet on the manifold is in a different place. You could "probably" make the 409 hose work.

Verne

that's what I expected...

is the centerline offset of the 409 hose 9" (thermostat housing to radiator inlet)?..

what is the distance between rear face of radiator to the round portion of the thermostat housing?..

Sorry, but I can't get to the car now to get those measurements.

Verne

is the radiator inlet on a 409 near the edge of the radiator or close to the fan shroud?..

It's near the outside edge.

and that centerline of the radiator fill next and the inlet are offset 9"?..

I'm not sure where the 9" offset you're talking about is.

sorry...the horizontal distance between the centerline of the fill neck and the centerline of the radiator inlet...

I'll try to measure it tomorrow if I'm out in the shop.

Verne

thanks, verne...i appreciate all of your help...

The parts book lists the same radiator for 1963 with heavy duty radiator, high performannce 327 engine, air conditioning. 409 engine, and....Power Glide transmission.

The only difference being the '63 radiator with a Powerglide had the trans cooler lines in the bottom, where the standard trans radiator didn't have those lines (or fittings). Two different part numbers.

Verne

The measurement is 9".

Verne

then in a 409, are both the radiator filler neck and the thermostat housing on the engine aligned to the centerline of the car?.. are they aligned to each other?..

Yes, they are....dead center on both.

Bob

it's pretty interesting:

the 327 and "409" radiator are the same width overall when including the mounting brackets...

the filler necks are centered in both radiators and the car...

the 327 & 409 thermostat housing outlet are centered on the engine and the car...

verne measured a 409 radiator and says the distance between filler neck and radiator inlet is 9"... this suggests that the thermostat outlet and radiator inlet are also offset 9"...

the napa auto molded upper radiator hose for 409 (without a/c) only had a 6" offset...


what's wrong here?..

Here's what I do whenever I can't find the right hose. I simply take a clothes hanger or similar wire, bend it to the shape that it needs to
be to connect to both outlets, and then I go to O'Reilly's or Napa and explain what I'm doing. They are great about letting me go back and
find a hose that will work. I may have to cut off a slight amount from each end, but 99% of the times I have found one that fit perfectly.

Bobalouie

thanks for the advice, bob...

but i'm trying to determine if the napa auto 409 hose that they offered me is the correct hose...everything i've learned here indicates that the correct 409 hose should have a 9" offset, but unfortunately, i don't have a 409 to measure myself to confirm if i have all my facts right...

I'd get the hose and if it doesn't fit, just return it.
Does NAPA have a different listing for a hi-perf 327 with A/C?
Verne

no, they list the 327/300 w/ac and 409 w/ac as being supported by the napa auto universal flexible hose only...

how is the 409 w/ac different than without a/c?..

That's not the question. A 409 with A/C is a completely different radiator.
I'm telling you a 300hp 327 with A/C uses the same radiator as a 409 (without) A/C. The hoses should be the same. You said the NAPA hose for a 409 has a different measurement than you need, so I asked if NAPA has a listing for a different hose for the hi-perf 327 with A/C. It's the SAME hose, but NAPA might show it differently and maybe that is the one you need.
You said they stock a hose with a 6 offset, but now you say they only offer a flexible hose, so they can't help you. Have you tried searching Google for reproduction radiator hoses? See what applications come up.

Verne

Here is what I can offer. I have a '64 Belair with the 409", 425 horse motor.

NO A/C It has the heavy duty, slanted top radiator.

I measured for you, and going from the centerline of the thermostat housing to the centerline of the radiator inlet, it is offset towards the
passenger fender by 10 1/2".

Also, starting at the thermostat housing, the hose extends 6", then makes a 45 degree bend towards the passenger fender; from the center of
that bend to the center of the next 45 degree bend, it is 9 1/2" long. From the center of this bend to be flush with the radiator inlet, it is 4" long.

Napa does list a molded hose, NBH 7209, that states that it is a cut to fit design. I looked at mine and I did cut one end to fit perfectly.

The original GM part number was 3780334, which you may be able to use to cross reference with Gates or Dayco.

O'Reilly list a molded, cut to fit under part number 20380.

Hope this helps,

Bob

verne:

napa lists the 327/300 with a/c as requiring the napa auto universal flexible hose...so they do not have a molded hose for that application...

i did order a molded hose from show cars for a 409, but it did not fit...it only had a 6" offset...they do not offer a 327/300 a/c hose...

there is a 327/300 a/c hose from a vendor, but they said they will not measure it...so that would be a crap shoot...the same one being offered by them on ebay...

at this point, i think i'll buy the 409 hose from napa and try it on...

bob:

thanks for the info...i will use them and try some of the hoses you mentioned...

One final entry....this side shows a one for sale, original GM part number 3780334, $22...

If all else fails....good luck, Bob

https://www.jiksawonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=879172

thanks, bob...that's the same vendor who could not tell me the offset dimensions...