VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 34 Pickup overheating

Don't worry about it, this is not brain surgery, just tighten the bolts to spec torque or if you have experience you will know how tight to turn the studs. Best thing to do is buy a new set of studs and you will have no concern. Any you guys have much experience with these old engines probably has had the fun of tightening all the head bolts then breaking the last one. Then you get to spend more exiciting time pulling the head off and trying to fish out the broken part. Did people swear before automobiles were invented?

The 1934 Master engine head bolts were also used o216 engines until 1953. 1/2 - 13 by 4 1/2 " LONG.
i NEVER HAD A PROBLEM REUSINGTHEM. tHERE WERE NO TORQUE FIGURES GIVEN IN 1934 BUT 70 FOOT POUNDS WAS USED ON THE 216 ENGINE

Thanks. The bolts are fine. Threads match up, and inside the head to end are within 3 thousandths. Thanks again for your help. I'll have the machinist verify.

Head bolts checked out ok with the machinist too. As I torqued, 20, 40, 60, and started 70 a head bolt broke off. Soooo I am looking for head bolts. I would prefer new, but filling station does not have them. I do have a used one coming, but if I could get new( due to my present experience) I would prefer that. 1934 Chevy Master, as confirmed by engine and head castings. Any help ? And yes, I will use a new head gasket.

Guess my post went elsewhere. The machinist checked the bolts, no stretch. As I torqued them, 20,40,60, then to 70 one snapped. No it was not the last one. The second to the last one. Sooooo I am looking for new head bolts. The Filling Station did not have any. I do have a used one coming, but I would (after this experience) prefer new ones. Anybody have a source ? And yes, I have a new head gasket coming.
Patience is a virtue, and I'm working on it.....

studs would be a better choice than bolts.

You may want to look into a company called ARP who make the best bolts or studs. Definitely expensive but your buying quality. Unfortunately they do not produce them , just checked

Everybody hates having to do a job the second time.

If you snapped a bolt , then its obvious the bolt was flawed.

A clicker torque wrench is dead accurate, UNLESS somebody has failed to unwind it to zero. You either buy a new one or get your old one re-calibrated so its accurate.

At a car cruise nite last week a guy I was talking to had a torque wrench laying in his trunk..........question what are you tightening. Wheel nuts he said . I see that the wrench is set 90 ft pounds, it should be unwound to 0. Said its been like that in trunk for at least 4 years. Said you ever break a stud, oh ya, month ago.

Wasting my breath trying to tell him how the torque wrench is to be treated. Works for the government, he failed IQ test so got a job.



mike

I would agree, the bolt was obviously flawed. I missed it. The machinist missed it. Next. I do reset my wrench to 0 after use, and it is a clicker. I did run a tap in the holes to clean them out. I did put a couple of drops of oil on the threads before torquing them. Sometimes ____ just happens.

I don't have a problem switching over to studs if I could find them.

Broken piece came out easy....... welded a nut to it and turned it out with a wrench. And yes, I protected the block from welding splatter.

I don't mind paying more for quality. But there does not seem to be any options for bolts or studs..... I will keep on researching.....

Again, my humble thanks for folks input....

ARP had some 50 thousandths shorter....... since the machine shop had to take 35 thousandths off the head to get rid of some rot, (read as putting from rusting) that makes them only 15 thousandths short. And no, the original 4 1/2 inch bolt did not bottom out. How do I know, by ore measuring before installation. They sell a head bolt thread lube, claiming 19-15% more clamping power, I ordered some and am considering using it and lowering my torque to 70 final not 75-80 recommended. Any thoughts or experience on this ? The new bolts are big block bolts they sell. They can torque to 130 ft lbs, not that my block could handle that, but they should handle the 70 ft lbs easily..... feedback ?

a prior poster chevy guru or junkyard dog recommended 70, not 75--80.

Your on the right track now with the studs, expensive but worth it.

Don't forget to spray the cyl head gasket with K & W coppercoat or permatex before putting down. Stops the microscopic scratches in cyl head from leaking.

Re torque cylinder head after running for a day .

mike

If you go back to my Aug. 1st post I said 70 pounds, the same as a 216 engine.
In my opinion I sure would not use studs on an over head valve engine.

As mike suggested spray the gasket with coppercoat or permatex. I use a product "holymar" spray on when all surfaces a smooth and if any pitting near a opening I use the holymar paste. It not only fills any gaps but acts as a glue after it warms up and sets.
Tony

and the reasoning is ??????

most race or hipo street motors use them , especially small and big block chevies. A company like ARP exists because there is a need for a supplier of better grade head bolts/studs. It may be OVERKILL , but its good overkill.

If low quality stock bolts are not readily available, why not step up to grade 8 bolts/studs that in your wildest imagination would not break at 70 foot pounds.

mike

Head installed, roughed the cold valves in at .010 and .017. Thank you Terrill for the instruction in an earlier post. The truck runs great, however it still overheats. The radiator flows water as fast as my garden hose puts it in, and if I hold my hand over the bottom radiator hose fitting till the radiator is full, it gushes out 4-5 inches. I tried running it with the top hose disconnected when warm ( thermostat open) with the garden hose supplying new water, and it flowed heavily(6-10 inches) out of the top radiator hose until the cold water eventually hit the thermostat closing it.

Conclusions: 1) radiator does not seem completely plugged. It flows water.
2) water pump seems to be pumping plenty of water

I am open to suggestions .....
And no, I am not that slow as a mechanic, I took a week of to visit South Dakota !!!

There are no longer bubbles showing up in the radiator while running, so that is better .

well your making great headway in solving the problem. Make sure the thermostat is down around 160--165. These motors do not need to run at 190--195 like a newer engine.

Try this test with hood on and closed. Run engine at idle, 650--700 rpm, take a 2 foot square piece of bed sheet that would be similar to a cloth diaper. Put it in front of grill/radiator and start at 12" from the grill and move it inwards until the fan pulls the cloth forward on its own.

If the cloth is drawn too the grill and ***stays there on its own***, then you have sufficient draw to be able to drive the truck at low speeds without overheating .

Millen PHIL from Ohio went to great lengths to examine my post about how the fan can seriously reduce the heating problem. Phil ended up using a 34-35 chev truck fan 4 blade which has a bigger pitch to the blades than pass car. And that my friend is the secret to getting it too cool.

A whole series of posts was done in the 33-36 section about a year or so ago if you wish to look it up and read it. I have no idea what the title of thread was other than overheating. ????

I discovered the fix solution for my 1935 chev std 3 w coupe that had a 422 cu in olds V8 motor in it when I bought it in 1970. I used a Chrysler 7 blade steel fan that a friend gave to me to try.

Vintage air in texas makes a 6 blade heavily pitched steel fan for less than $50 that would have to be adapted to work on an original stock water pump.



mike lynch.................

Even if your radiator has good water flow that doesn't necessary mean that the radiator still has good heat transfer.

JUNK YARD............tell him how to properly examine the radiator fins, that would be a better reply.

Personally I would have the top and bottom tanks removed and cleaned properly including rodding the tubes of any debris

mike

When the heat transfer is greatly diminished in an old radiator due to age, I don't mess with it......I replace the old radiator with a new unit.

and that's getting even harder to find somebody who actually rebuilds radiators cores.

NOTE......the radiator fins must be in solid contact with the louvered fins in order to be able to extract the heat properly. That's the answer that should have been posted .

Today most of those guys are out of business, as everything comes brand new in a box from ?????

WALKER RADIATOR in TENN makes a top quality NON aluminum radiator that will cool your vehicle. Altho they are primarily a supplier of rads for street rods, the rads are meant to cool small and big block chevys in our cars.

mike lynch

Let me muddy the water a bit more. I pulled the 165 thermostat that I replaced the 180 with. I ran it with no thermostat. It idled for 30 minutes, and ran three blocks with water temp (according to the gauge) sitting between 125 and 150 degrees. Why did I stop? You wonder. Well, the fuel pump wants to be rebuilt !!

My thinking is the water pump is aging, and the radiator is aging, and both prefer the "no resistance " of no thermostat. After rebuilding the fuel pump, ill run it a bit. But, I think I am just buying time.....I'll probably do the water pump and radiator together. I am lucky, we have an old school radiator shop here that has been in business since the 40's, and the old guy who owns it has been around the block, and supervises the young ones that do the work.

The fins do seem to be touching the core at 95% of the area.

Also be sure to check if the baffle behind the water pump is securley in place.

No problem in my area for a shop to rebuild radiator cores. There are several local shops that provide that service and I have had two radiators done and what a difference on the cooling! I won't mess with an 80 year old radiator that won't cool. In that case a new radiator core is the way to go.

Old Guys Rule....Let your "old" radiator guy have a look at it. He will set you straight. If yours is in the "hard water" of New Mexico like mine was in the Texas Hill Country; then it will have to be "boiled out" to remove lime build up. In any case I would not just run out there and "buy" a new one. Give that old guy a chance at it first.

I much prefer fixing, as opposed to replacing with new.

That said, and you will get a good laugh at this, I was convinced the fuel pump needed rebuilding. Which I did. Then I thought it was vapor locking..... only to read old posts and discovering the heat riser issue.... nothing but a little bump on the outside of the manifold, and I'm sure(well I'm thinking) all the guts are missing inside ....as I distinctly heard the gas boiling as I poured a little in the carb to try to get it running after "vapor lock". My education continues..... and I enjoy it all.

considering where your living and the general temperatures down there in that state.

To not attack the problem 100% is foolhardy. My information flow ends here.

mike

It is all trial and error. Could be something as simple as a loose fan belt. We are all hobby guys when it comes to this. The same thing our Grandpa's faced on these cars. But when you fix it; then you sure can be proud of your Chevy.