VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Wood kits from Autowood Restoration

I also have had several experiences with all 3 (Jim, KC, and classic wood) I spoke to Bill Cartwright several months ago about a hinge pillar. He said he was so back-logged that it would be about a 2 year wait. I've ordered from Jim several times and had the same experience as most of you. (ie: he had the item and would ship in a few days and it took 8 months). Great products but slow ship. I have never had any trouble getting him real early in the AM (7:30 - 8 Am.) He has forgotten more about the old wooden cars than I know. Very nice and helpful, just slow shipping. Classic Wood - I bought most of my wood from them back when Steve Cannon owned it. Their problem was - no patterns. I took and/or sent all the patterns I had to Steve (2008) and he made my wood but did have to outsource some of it as he was so back-logged. (He had a contract to do a lot of Ford patterns). Then he got cancer and couldn't be around the sawdust (most of the info for the patterns were in his head). He sold the company to a guy who used to be a NASCAR Crew Chief. Ricky is (or was) his shop manager. Steve would work with you if the pattern was off. Steve died about Nov 2012 - 13. The new owners wouldn't make good on any patterns that Steve made so I had to order new pieces from them. They do good work but many of the holes are off. As Chistech said, tell them to NOT drill any holes and do your own holes. Their quality is pretty good overall.

That's good news Pipe. I have been waiting three months for my sills. I talked to him two weeks ago and he said he needs to bring in another load of wood and it would be another month or two. I haven't given up hope yet.

Used Ricky at classic wood for the 30 spt coupe, only problem was his pattern for the 30 spt coupe with rumble seat was for a 29. Finally figured it out and Pointed it out to him and he said if you have a pattern send and he will make.

Just adding another story I was just told. Had a gentleman from Pittsburgh PA call me. He has a 32' 2dr Oldsmobile that Jim was supposed to have made wood for and was supposed to install it. Last time Jim picked up the phone was over a yr ago and told this guy that the car was at the body shop getting the cowl/windshield posts cut off. They (father/son) can no longer get Jim to answer the phone and they do not know the condition of their car. Jim has had the car for over 5yrs total. They are going to drive out in a month or so to see what the status is. The wood kit was paid in full. Not sure if any of the wood has been installed. I got the call because another Olds enthusiast told them I could probably install it for them. I will know more soon and will update everyone when I've heard.

Talked to one of my customers this morning and he ordered a wood kit from Jim Rodman in February of this year. He mentioned that he called Jim just a month and a half ago to ask a question about his wood kit and he said that Jim answered the phone right away.

Just talk to a friend, who lives in Indiana and owns a 1929 Landau and a 2 Door. Working on his Landau earlier this year he needed needed some wood and tried to call Jim several times but no answer. he decided to take drive up to visit him and see what was going on. Said Jim was not in good health at the time, and that his son had left him to go work for the railroad for more money. so Jim was working alone when he could work. He left some parts there for him to replicate, and as of a few weeks ago he has not touched them, said jim has hardly done any work all summer.

He plans to head back up there in a few weeks to get his wood back, since he needed the parts he had to make his own to get by until he can get his parts back or made.

I have had many inquiries about making wood for people because the wait is so long with most guys currently making pieces. This is how I found out about what I mentioned in my previous post. Spoke with a good friend today who is a master carpenter (we attended his New England style clam boil)and he is looking for side work in his own home wood shop. It seems the guy who he was making furniture for on the side has bought the custom furniture business my friend works for at his full time job and moved that side work into the business. I will be going over the particulars with him soon but it looks like we will be making up wood. Of course we will need patterns but I'm sure there are people out there who can supply us with good enough wood to copy. We will probably be starting with 32' Oldsmobile wood as I have two or three people needing wood and I have some of the pattern wood already.

Copying wood is not usually good enough. You need to be able to recognize the ravages of time and whether the body has sagged or distorted from original. A master carpenter is not a carriage builder and won't have the knowledge or experience required. Best of luck.

True enough, but for most of us, holding out for a carriage builder just means we don't get any wood. Buying a Fisher wood bodied car was an eye opener. I contacted every supplier I could find on the Internet in an attempt to price the wood before buying the car. By the time I bought the car a month later, only one of those suppliers had called me back. Most of them eventually got around to it.

None of them had patterns for a my car. All were booked out for literally years.

Unfortunately the craftsmen that originally built the wooden bodied cars are long gone. I think a master carpenter would have the ability to learn the "trade" better than the average person. While I am far from being a simple carpenter I did fabricate all the wood for the r.h. front door on my sedan. The fellow rebuilding the body said he did not want to wait for me to fabricate the rest of the wood so he ordered it from Jim Rodman. That was 17 years ago and Jim was a little faster then as it took only about 6 months to get the wood needed. The fellow who has the 29 cabriolet that I hope to get photos of fabricated all the wood for his 32 Cabriolet. He was a master carpenter-also a master electrician and plumber. Experience and knowledge only come from doing and I think it's in the benefit of the wood body owners to encourage and support anyone willing to invest in learning the trade.

It is indeed sad that Jim Rodman is in poor health, and his son is not interested in taking over the business for him. Perhaps someone who is seriously wanting to do the type work that Jim did should contact Jim about buying his patterns and tools.

I don't discourage anyone from trying but I don't believe it is anyone's best interest to gloss over the pitfalls. I have studied body engineering practices from the period and have a good idea of what they were trying to accomplish with available materials. Their biggest issue was very poor glues by our today standards. It is interesting to see people ask for measurements from original cars not understanding that over time some of these bodies may have warped and distorted so as to make these type of relative measurements unreliable. Actually with knowledge of body design all dimensions can be calculated either from scratch or using a few key angles and measurements from original wood or sheet metal. I am presently reconstructing wood for a 1928 Durant, a 1929 Chevrolet Sedan and a 1929 Chevrolet Cabriolet. The Durant and Chev sedan are further along with the cabriolet just started. All of these needed to have some areas calculated to insure correct body shape and alignment. A carriage builder usually followed plans given by a body designer so learning the building trade might not give the required knowledge to really make correct replacement wood. Having said this anyone feeling that they can do it by all means I encourage you to give it a go. A lot of quality work comes from people that are not experienced.
All the best to those that try as that is what builds our society.

Perhaps the term "master carpenter " is incorrect for my friend and I should call him a "master cabinetmaker " as his work is far beyond a carpenter with no disrespect to any carpenter out there. I personally copied my own wood from my Olds and it has all fit back to the sheet metal perfectly meaning all is square, no sagging sheet metal, and proper door alignment. My wood working experience started in high school shop class and was never formal. With anything, proper measurements, proper joints, and general geometry will yield at least good to very good results with time/experience yielding excellent results. A general knowledge of how these cars is built is definitely needed but if one doesn't have it, another can teach it to them. I started with these old cars as an adult just two years ago and with the help of many here, I feel my knowledge and abilities have increased immensely. There are many who rebuild these bodies with steel framework who have no idea how the wood was ever made yet they get proper shape and alignments because of a general understanding of what needs to be done. Wood is the original medium and if a skilled person with a general knowledge of what needs to be done attempts to construct a framework, goal is the same as the one who made it out of steel. There are enough books out there that show the construction techniques and styles used on these car that the skilled craftsmen would not have too much trouble getting good results quickly. Common sense dictates that things from one side of the car to the other are mirror images in lots of cases. A skilled cabinetmaker would already have wood grain knowledge, stress area joinery experience,etc., in his background. I agree that recreating car wood is not for everyone, but I do not feel it's rocket science either. I've seen many fudged areas on these cars that was done originally at the factory. Hammered over nails, hammered in screws, broken wood crudely pieced together and more. Today, the wood made by guys like rodman and bill Cartwright is of much higher quality and fit much better than the original wood. No one bothered to pick the wood out or was concerned with bad joinery as these cars were just put together quickly. I'm willing to bet a car with restored wood made by a cabinetmaker is probably going to be made just as well as what came off chevy's 30's era assembly line.

Spoke will Bill Cartwright today. His business is up for sale and he has someone interested as I was also but don't think it's in the cards. Bill told me the most important thing is the patterns, then the needed jigs, then using the proper grade of ash. He said most anyone could learn the trade but a skilled cabinetmaker could quickly learn the business and be making money immediately. I've found Bill's wood the best with fit and finish perfect yet Bill has little car knowledge of the body as it's assembled. Jim rodman has the car knowledge and makes very nice wood so what I mean is Bill is a carpenter first and not much more (not meaning that in a bad way)but he makes excellent fitting wood so while car knowledge is definitely an asset, great carpentry skills with good patterns still yield what most here need, quality wood recreated.

As a person that has both body and word working experience I support Chistech's comments completely.

I have made and fitted wood in several Chevrolet bodies. Yes I have made cabinets and furniture as well as built structures. It takes a lot of expertise and equipment to duplicate the wood pieces. You throw away many pieces (mostly softwood) until you have your (hardwood or paper or ?) patterns perfected. It is challenging and enjoyable until it becomes a chore.

I have also purchased several pieces from Jim Rodman over the years. Have not had any problems with him. Never tried any of the others but have talked to them occasionally and they seem to know what they are doing. Just not 100% sure on accuracy until I actually install their pieces.

Jim Rodman has installed his manufactured wood in Chevrolet bodies so has first hand knowledge on fit. Apparently his health and business skills are limiting him today. It is a shame because he has contributed to preserving countless old Chevys. Guess it might be up to some younger folks to take up the flag. As it will be for me as well, someday. Just not Today.

"Good patterns are the key" Doesn't matter skill level if the patterns used have issues. That is my point. I have seen manufacturer deficiencies and have corrected them using the body engineering information I have acquired over the years. Most if not all the "patterns" used by suppliers come from original cars where body condition is unknown. As a case in point I have seen one four door car that looked great with all doors fitting and eventually discovered the body had sagged out and was 3" wider then it was supposed to be. This was an extreme case but shows possible pitfalls of using old wood as patterns. All I wish to convey is that people should not assume anything when re-wooding old cars and use caution with measurements.

Some of the history I have read pointed out that when some bodies were going thru the assembly process there were workers on each side. Each hand fitted his side so sometimes they were not a mirror image. They were production built and necessity of keeping on schedule sometimes meant that perfection was not top priority. While there are many opinions of best woods to use in various areas I found varieties of wood in my 32 that are today not recommended. I think there was a lot more concern with cost and availability back then than we realize while today when doing one car only the best materials are sought.

Ditto! I had the pleasure years ago to talk with a gentleman that worked on the line here at Oshawa during that era and he said that there was a team of "specialists" that whenever a problem with fit or a part that was milled wrong this "team" would come in to fix it while the line kept going. I found one of these fixes on my sedan where the board under the header was milled too thin. It wasn't replaced but everything else was modified to make it work. But knowing the factory wasn't perfect is not a reason I could use to excuse my own work.

Update: the father/son with the 32 Olds I posted about earlier went out to see their cara couple days ago. They got to jim's around 10am and Jim came out of the house and I was told his health looked good. The wood kit he started 5yrs earlier is not quite done but he promised to finish it by the end of this month minus the door regulators which he will ship. Jim had the cowl cut at the body shop to remove it from the wood and will be reassembling the front wood and the cowl back to the sills so the car can travel back home. So it appears Jim is still working and now has a woman working with him. He had a guy previously who worked with him that passed away from an overdose. I was told he has lots andlot s of wood on the premises though I don't know if that wood was in the rough or finished into parts.

5 years? Wow?

I have been trying to contact Jim for a week. He is not answering his phone. I call just after 8 am his time. I tried sending e-mail to the address on his web site, however I get a message UNABLE TO DELIVER. I may have to try snail mail.

I just got a 1930 Coupe and started stripping it and finding out how much wood needs replaced. I have never worked on a wood frame before and found Jims number online. I called this morning and he answered but said he couldn't talk call back tomorrow, his email just bounced back undelivered. I'm thinking I may need to try someone else after reading this post. Anyone have an idea what a complete kit runs?

I have bought several wood parts from Jim Rodman. His prices are a bargain. I can make the parts as I have some experience and a multitude of woodworking tools but if Jim has it I can't justify making myself. Always had the parts in stock and shipped as soon as payment was made. Jim may not be the best businessman but definitely is a top notch wood fabricator. I would not hesitate to buy from him again if the parts are in stock.

30' wood is a little easier to get than 31' or 32'. Jim should have some pieces in stock and so should Bill Cartwright. Bill is usually a little more money but his pieces are usually a little nicer too. Between the two of them you should be able to get most of what you need. The coupes are the most popular wood pieces the sell according to Bill. Some of the wood will cross from other models and the flat easy boards you can make yourself out of ash.

[quote=jgrohio]I just got a 1930 Coupe and started stripping it and finding out how much wood needs replaced. I have never worked on a wood frame before and found Jims number online. I called this morning and he answered but said he couldn't talk call back tomorrow, his email just bounced back undelivered. [/quote
Got hold of Jim ordered a Hinge Pillar and he shipped it right out. He didn't have other pieces I needed right now but quick response.