VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 Country Club wood trim package

I think they look really good and should be accepted as a period correct accessory. But I think most period correct accessories should be accepted. I'm not talking hotrods but stuff that dealers sold should be OK. JMHO

"Guys, we have already set a precedent with the Country Club package."

What was the precedent that was established?

Good question. My guess would be that if the wood kit is not recognized as a genuine Chevrolet accessory then they would probably deduct points in the body panel category. But.....then again......

I have to admit the wood kit does look attractive. I very much wanted a wood kit on my Aerosedan but after researching it out I opted not to pursue it due to the fact it was not a GM approved option. As a VCCA lead judge for the San Fernando Valley chapter for the last 10~15 years I have not judged a Aerosedan with a wood kit. I would absolutely hate to deduct points because of it. It was stated that points were not deducted on a car with a wood kit and that is understandable, WHY? Because if a judge is not absolutely sure if something is incorrect it is advised not to deduct. BUT! If a judge is knowledgeable and the owner cannot show proof or documentation then points are to be deducted. I would very much want to be proven wrong and have some proof come to light that the wood kit is GENUINE CHEVROLET APPROVED ACCESSORY, but I have not been convinced otherwise. In fact I have consulted a few guys I know with tons of literature and documentation and there is nothing to support that the wood kit is GM approved. Since it is NOT GM approved accessory it is a body panel deduction. I am going to consult my chief judge who happens to be extremely knowledgeable with judging since we are having a VCCA sanctioned car show this weekend. I will be judging again and will need to know what to do if a car shows up with a wood kit, because I would instinctively deduct points.

I for one hate to deduct points on cars that have been beautifully restored. I know what it takes to restore a car, the time, money, and effort. It pains me to see a Fleetmaster with flawless full woodgrained dash and have to deduct because the dash should not be fully woodgrained. Cars with aftermarket/reproduction gravel guards are very common but not correct, hence deduction. I see it all the time where someone does something a certain way because they thought it was correct from what they saw in another person’s car.

I have not had the experience of having my 1951 Chevys judged, so here are my comments/questions, in an effort to understand.

It "sounds" to me, that the judging of a vehicle is based on the combined knowledge of the judges, in attendance, on any particular "judging day". At one event, no deductions, at another event .... deductions, for the same item. Confusing to me.

I have read the C.C. kit and visor thread from August of 2014.

I have read Mr Scott's remarks, within that thread, stating the C.C. kit has established a precedent. What does that indicate ?

I read your above comments, as well.

If there is no GM part number or no GM accessory number, doesn't that alone end any confusion, as to the validity or not, of a part or accessory?

I may be missing a piece of the puzzle here, but I'm trying to gain clarity, as to the VCCA format, regarding judging.

I was of the belief that a GM part number was the green light for authenticity, within judging ... while any part without a number was not GM.

Any clarification is appreciated.

Thanks.

Here is part of the post from Steve in 2014

.***** GM had a contract with the company to offer the Country Club package****. The name of the company slips my mind right now. It would be similar to SRC making the convertibles in the early 80s. We have had Country Clubs judged before and there would be no deduction for that.

_________________________
Steve Scott- VCCA Judging Committee
1956 Bel Air 4 dr.Sedan
1985 Type 10 Cavalier Conv.
1986 Cavalier RS Conv.
www.vcca.org/~ni


What do you think???

Since I am an owner of a CC Package car I most likely am bias in my opinion. IF it is deemed the kit is no a genuine Chevrolet accessory and points are to be deducted in the Body Panel category, will the points be the mandatory (20)? per panel or something less than that? I always assumed that was put in for those who used fiberglass fenders, etc in place of the original metal.
On a car with the CC Kit the wood was installed on top of the original metal panels. They are still there! If points are to be deducted why can't it be simply for the use of a non Chev accessory which usually is something less. If someon decides to install fleetline strips on their Fleetmaster are the body panels wrong of just what was attached to them?
I think the mandatory 20? points per panel is overkill. Certainly would discourage someone like Chef Chev from bringing his car to a VCCA Meet.

Dick

.***** GM had a contract with the company to offer the Country Club package****. The name of the company slips my mind right now. It would be similar to SRC making the convertibles in the early 80s. We have had Country Clubs judged before and there would be no deduction for that.


Steve Scott- VCCA Judging Committee
1956 Bel Air 4 dr.Sedan
1985 Type 10 Cavalier Conv.
1986 Cavalier RS Conv.
www.vcca.org/~ni


It appears this is VCCA documentation to me
_________________________

OPINIONS below are from 2 different judges .... but doesn't the head of judging, or some one within VCCA determine which is correct?

I thought the existence of a GM part number verified the part, as being a valid GM item. If not a criteria, maybe it should be the criteria.

Mr Scott states ..."We have had Country Clubs judged before and there would be no deduction for that."

Mr Johnson states ..."Since it is NOT GM approved accessory it is a body panel deduction."

A valid GM part number only signifies that the part was available from the GM parts system. Dealers and some repair shops could order directly from GM. There is no guarantee that any part in that system is identical to a part that was installed on the assembly line. In most cases they are but not always. I agree the part number also implies that GM authorizes those parts as replacements whether they were manufactured by GM, an qualified original supplier or another supplier.

Also be aware there are parts on vehicles assembled by GM factories that DO NOT have GM parts system numbers. They do have manufacturing part numbers but are not available through the replacement part system.

I spoke with my chief judge and explained the situation we are having. I mentioned to him about Steve Scott’s comment about judging cars with the wood kit and no deductions were taken off. My chief judge advised me to follow suit, but put in the comment that there is no evidence that the wood kit is a GM approved accessory on the judging card. I will reluctantly follow the VCCA unofficial ruling on this matter!

Now I’m not thee expert, nor the final word on 47 and 48 Chevrolets, but consider the following. There still is NO proof of the wood kit being an approved GM Chevrolet accessory. Everything I see on this post to support the wood kit is circumstantial evidence. Steve Scott’s states “GM had a contract with the company to offer the Country Club package” but where is the evidence to that? I would love to see it! Also the wood kit is no small part addition, wouldn’t you think something as big as this would have a part number?

I agree with the above 100%. In other words leave well enough alone unless documentation is found to prove different story.

[b]"Also the wood kit is no small part addition, wouldn’t you think something as big as this would have a part number?"[/b]

Yes, I agree with your logic, but I also have ZERO experience with the judging procedures, thus trying to learn what the criteria is for giving point deductions or not.

From all I have read here, I see various opinions, but believe base rules must take precedence over opinions.

"Also be aware there are parts on vehicles assembled by GM factories that DO NOT have GM parts system numbers. They do have manufacturing part numbers but are not available through the replacement part system."

How would replacement parts be procured, when needed, if these parts do not have part numbers ?

Are you possibly speaking of nuts, bolts, tires, tubes and the like?

One example of a part that was used on 40+ years of Chevrolet trucks is the 90 deg. wear iron. Some years riveted to the box side others welded. In the early 70s it was only available welded to the bed side not as a separate part. There fore it did not have a GM part number. I was able through a VCCA member obtain the manufacturing part number. A number were ordered through a Chevrolet dealer. Later the company that manufactured the parts for Chevrolet was identified and the irons were available directly from the manufacturer.

There are a number of other similar situations. Many parts that are only available as an assembly not individual parts, batteries, tires, valve stems, upholstery material are other examples.

As an example Chevrolet offered different high out-put generators as options for large trucks. They were listed in the option list but not mentioned in a part book. You got the parts from the supplier or a parts house that carried them.

VCCA judging is not perfect and never will be With over 100 years of Chevrolet models and hundreds of different series finding 30 judges to judge the show field in two hours is not easy.

Thanks.

"VCCA judging is not perfect and never will be With over 100 years of Chevrolet models and hundreds of different series finding 30 judges to judge the show field in two hours is not easy."

Understood.

But wouldn't there be a different Delco voltage regulator listed for that application?

The fact that three cars were judged with the Country Club wood kit does not set a precedent. All that proves is that the judges were not sure if the wood kit was correct or not so points were not deducted for the wood kit. The "precedent" here is that, according to the judging manual, if the judges are not sure about an item then no points should be deducted.

The only way that a "precedent" can actually be established is through factual documentation that the wood kit is a correct Chevrolet accessory.

I am 1000 percent in agreement with this quote!!!! I will not be convinced otherwise until I see solid evidence of documentation proving otherwise.

How about someone write a ONE paragraph article for the G&D about the CC Kit? The title could be:

? Original Accessory or Aftermarket ?

The article would have one picture of a Country Club Wood Kit installed on a Chevy. The paragraph would ask for solid Chevrolet information either proving it as an accessory or an aftermarket add-on. We would have up to 8,000 members potentially helping us find a solution to this question. Certainly there is at least ONE VCCA member who worked in a dealership in the late 1940's and is familiar with this kit or maybe someone who might have original Chevrolet documentation.

Maybe we should call the GM Heritage Center and ask for documentation?

dtm

Well.... considering that person is at least 80+++ years young, maybe, one left.

At this point.... seems the logical next step.

The book by John D. Robertson " A Pictorial History of Chevrolet 1940-1954" features a 48 with a CC wood kit installed. Page 136. The cover on the book states " As told through original FACTORY photos from the GM Media Archives. It does state that the kits were produced by an outside company and sold thru Chevrolet dealers. It would seem strange that the factory would document and archive something if they did not approve it. I also think that dealers would be hesitant to install such a major item if it was not factory approved. Does anyone know if independent shops also installed the kits??