VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 '47 Fleetmaster Huck Brakes

Hi guys, newbie here. Just bought a '47 Town Sedan and began working some issues with it and changing out a few things. It will not be fully original (sorry to any purists out there).

When I pulled the LF brake drum, several pieces fell out onto the shop floor including a holddown spring, clip, a nut, and a bolt. It was clear where all the parts went, but it raised a few questions.

I have a Motor's manual that covers this car and a shop manual specific for it. Unfortunately neither of them give a lot of detail about the Huck brake system. This drives me to my questions.

I straightened up the small kink that had been formed in the holddown spring from rolling around in the drum and using the key clip, reattached it to the backing plate. That brought up my first question. Should the clip connect to the backing plate from the front, rear, or does it matter?

Next, the bolt had some thread issues (also from apparently rolling around in the drum) so I chased the threads with a die and went to reinstall it. The front shoe had a similar bolt holding the bottom of the shoe to the articulating link, so I assembled the rear one that had come out in the same fashion. Unfortunately, I had no idea how tight to make this bolt. All my searching to date has lead me to believe these are supposed to be pins and clips, not bolts and nuts. So, my second question is has anyone else seen bolts and nuts holding shoes to the articulating link, and if so, how tight should they be?

(Note: if this has been discussed somewhere else, I couldn't find it and when I tried to use the search function it stated I didn't have permission to do so.)

Thanks,
Rick

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/parts/1929_54/315a.htm You are right, no bolts. Pins and lock washers.

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Awesome that you realize that your brake system is one of the first things you should inspect after purchasing/inheriting one of our old cars.

You could learn a lot about your brake system by taking your other front brake drum off and checking to see if it is in better condition. That will help you sort out where your loose parts go. There are parts catalogs also available for buying replacement parts. Chevs of the 40's and The Filling Station are two companies that have websites for ordering parts. Parts they do not have I can supply. Call me for questions and part info at 989-832-7634.

I shoot a video of all my work so I can narrate and remember how things come apart and go together. If you don't have a video camera then take pictures of all the steps to complete a process.

I am busy getting ready for tonight's high school football game where I will videotape the team so the coach can show the kids what they are doing (right and wrong). You need to do the same with your car project.

Good luck, Mike

P.S. The front drum brakes do not have any bolts and nuts used to attach the brake shoes to the backing plate (flange plate).

F47M,

Merely pull the right hand front brake drum and take a look. If it is intact, it should answer all your questions.

You're welcome.
Charlie

DM,

Thank you. I wonder what that app on my computer called spell check is all about. SA. See you in Fall Charlotte?

Charlie

, I would like to take in the Charlotte meet , but stuck in my caregiver situation here with no help to speak of . Not complaining , but do miss these events...Thanks for asking and , keep em wondering what`s next!~D

Thanks all.

Regarding looking at the right side, that is where my problem started. When I bought the car I was told that the owner's mechanic had rebuilt the RF wheel cylinder. When I checked out the car (while on a lift) I noticed the RF wheel was somewhat loose. When I asked about it, I was told the bearing was shot and that the mech couldn't get it any tighter. It was going to be one of my first items to work on.

When I pulled the right drum, the inner race for the outer bearing stayed on the spindle and the tanged washer was conical shaped. Turned out the mechanic put the outer bearing in backward so the bearing was riding against the washer and not against the inner race.

I don't know what else he worked on when he had the wheel cylinder out, so I am hesitant to trust anything on the brakes at this point.

That said, thanks for the link to the parts breakdown. Clearly, someone has replaced (at least on the LF) the pins with something else. I'm going to have to go back to the RF to see if they did the same thing on that side.

I have already replaced the bearings with tapered rollers, but may have to go back in and replace some brake hardware now that it has been confirmed that what I have isn't correct.

Also, regarding my first question, does it matter which direction the hold down spring clips clip to the backing plate? That is, should they go from the inside out or outside in, or does it matter? I can't see where it would make much difference since the shoes don't really move very much (or they shouldn't) when properly adjusted. But, if there is a correct way, that's the way I want to do it.

Thanks again guys,
Rick

p.s. - I do have a service manual similar to this one, but I couldn't find any specific info on this topic.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1942_47/index.htm

So looking at section 5, Fig, 1 and Fig. 17 can you make out what you are asking? Or, if you could provide the part numbers , from the above link, of the parts in question, we can figure this out.

F47M,

If I understand your question, the pin goes in from the back side of the plate, through the shoe and then the spring is mounted, and then the lock is slide on and turned 90 degrees so that it locks in place.

If you are talking about the guides for the shoe hardware then the pins go throughout the backside and the bendable cleats are inserted in the groove and then bent down so they don't come off. Assemble the guides and then mount the heavier pins and cleats last.

I'm doing the above from memory and I think that what I'm saying is correct. Maybe some others will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Good luck with it.

Charlie

BTW: The person you keep referring to a "mechanic" ain't one.

I am thinking some one removed the origial pins and fold over locks and replaced them with bolts.

I truly appreciate the attempts at help... I really do. I know that I am mechanically inclined enough to understand this, but let me see if I can clarify the question.

In this link, http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1942_47/4247csm501.htm in figure 1, the pieces I am referring to go into what is tagged as "Conical Spring." \

In this link, http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/parts/1929_54/315a.htm the pieces I am referring to are called (I think) "Pin (N.S.S. part of 5.045 pin unit)."

They have a 90* bend to connect through the conical springs, through the shoes, and hooked to the tab on the unit called the "Flange Plate."

My question is which direction does the 90* portion of the pin point? In toward the spindle? Out toward the drum? Or, does it matter?

As for the other pins, springs, and locks (items 5.030, 5.028, and 5.030) on the LF these have been replaced with bolts and nuts. Not sure on the RF as I put that back together assuming everything except the bearing was correct. Once I get it taken back apart, I will confirm whether or not someone changed them out for bolts also.

Maybe my question about the first set of pins is a bit overkill. I know on "newer" drum brakes, the holddown pin simply is inserted through the hole in the backing plate and turned 90* after coming through the shoes, springs, and retainer. Maybe on these older Huck brakes it doesn't matter. Just trying to avoid issues in case they are supposed to be positioned a certain way and I don't have them that way.

Again, thanks for all the help.
Rick

Rough sketch of how the pins should go in. Red arrows show the pin orientation. This is looking at the top of the spindle.
The ends should point away from the spindle.

It helps to have a flashlight shining inside so you know when to turn the pin after pushing the conical spring with all your might...

Excellent! Thanks for the sketch. That is exactly what I was looking for.

And, you are right. I used a flashlight to put it back together, and then wondered if it was oriented correctly. I guessed correctly on the LF.

p.s. - I remembered that took a picture of the outer bearing race and spindle when I disassembled the RF side, and just looked at it to see if I could see whether or not it had pins or bolts in the link, and it too has (at least in the one spot I could see) a bolt and nut instead of a pin in the center position of the rear link.

EDIT - Looks like The Filling Station lists the locks for the pins, and CO40s does as well, but I don't see the pins and springs themselves. Any suggestions for an alternate source? I also checked Rock Auto.

Thanks again.
Rick

Unfortunately those parts are hard to find off-the-shelf..that's probably why there are nuts & bolts in yours....

I got a couple parts from D&D Antique Auto parts, but their website is no longer up...not sure if they've changed or what, but they had a lot of NOS parts.

I have several used brake related parts for a '38, I can check to see whether they are good or not if you want me to. They are obviously used and have been sitting out in the elements for many years....send me a PM.

Welcome ! This is a great place to get assistance. I encourage you to join National . The Monthly Magazine ; G & D is a great resource.

Hi Rick,

I guess if you want to replace your missing parts you should just call Mike Buller (989-832-7634). He has a box full of all the brake parts from atleast 10 different brake systems from the 1940's. Some of the parts actually came off a 47.

Good luck, Mike

P.S. I believe all the pins/springs/locks/conical springs are installed correctly. I do not have the large retracting spring installed.

I bought a Huck brake hardware kit from ebay from some bandit???, 90% of it was unuseable Chinese JUNK.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the referral. Do you know this Mike Buller personally? Can't be too careful about folks on the internet you know.

Seriously, I see you are in my time zone. If I get a chance tomorrow evening, I will give you a call. Trying to help my dad get a property ready to rent out, so will probably be patching and painting the rest of this week.

Jim is going to see if he can find some parts for me as well. I appreciate all the help. Maybe some day I can return the favor.

Rick

p.s. - Thanks for the pic. It's great to see how it is supposed to look.

Rick,

My previous post is of the rear brakes. The pins,/springs/locks/conical guide springs/brake shoe retracting springs are the same on the front and rear brakes.

Thanks, Mike

P.S. I know what you mean about trusting people. I have always been leery of folks from Ohio!!!

F47M,

You can trust Mike Buller. I bought front new fenders from him for my 41 project. They were nicely protected and arrived in no time by Greyhound. They were in excellent shape with no damage.

He is the most meticulous feller I've ever known. And, that is a complement. He takes his time and does his projects right.

A great guy.from what I can tell from a distance. I have never met him but hope to some day. Like all those from MI I have ever met, it may be a good idea to arrange a phone call to yourself saying you have an emergency of some kind, if you ever get together with him. There seems to be no "off" switch with most of those fellows from that state. You know. Kind of like a bunch 47/48 Fleetliners all a-talking (bragging) at once and over one another. Makes the rest of the model enthusiasts feel like "heavenly Helen" at a debutant ball. :Just saying. Agrin:

Charlie

Mike,

That picture son't look right. Something about the emergency brake activation< I think.

It's been a while since I've been into mine so my memory is rusty. And, I'm getting old. Seems like there is a bar that connects the two shoe activators at the top.

I'm certain that I have it wrong. Just old age.

Very nice picture, by the way. You and some others on the Chat take and post excellent pictures.

Charlie

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the nice complements. At our age how we share our time with each other is important. Your taking the time to thank me is deeply appreciated. There are a whole bunch of guys on this website that care enough about each other that they are willing to invest their time on helping with this wonderful hobby. Best wishes always to those who share their advice.

On a lighter note my 41 body is to be hauled home today from a paint job at the body shop. I am very pleased with their work. I am assuming it will take me about a year to put the 41 back together. The 40 videotapes I made should help in the reassembly along with all you guys. I will catch you up on my progress with some pictures in a few days.

SO FAR THE ONLY TRAGEDY IN MY RESTORATION IS THAT I WARPED MY FULTON VISOR WHEN I SAND BLASTED IT. I'M CONFIDENT YOU ALL WILL HELP ME FIND A NEW ONE.

Best wishes, Mike

I agree, especially them '41 owners......


Mike: Thanks for posting that pic above...when I took my rear brakes apart, I thought I lost the springs that go on the upper parking brake lever rod...turns out that the last person to work on the brakes did not put the springs back in....and the last person was...the Chevy dealership that my Dad used to frequent....


p.s. Brake shoes on '37 & up....were they the same exact design all the way up to '54??

When I saw the axle housing versus a spindle, I knew I was looking at a rear set of brakes, but I had read that the difference was in the parking brake set up. Glad to know everything else is the same - and to know that I definitely have wrong hardware in mine.

Just another quick question. The picture is extremely helpful. Is there any way to insert a picture into a post other than using a picture hosting site? Just thought I could pull one off my hard drive/phone/i-pad if needed rather than moving it to a website just to link it back here.

BTW, found out that a member here is someone I have known for about 20 years. Until I got this car, I had no idea he was also a vintage Chevy fan. I think I'm going to like it here.

Thanks again, all.
Rick