VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Accessory Turn Signals vs Judging Rules

I have noted here on the Chat that there is no value added for proper and year accurate accessory turn signals or any other accessories on your car. OK, then while I don't understand such a ruling so be it. The fact that you can search far and wide for a proper accessory and get nothing extra for it if it's on your car seems nonsensical to me. What's more if it is not perfect in every way there are points deducted. Merciful heaven.

Now recently it seems that any old turn signals can be on your car and there is no deduction of points, while a nice set of original ones that the owner paid big bucks for, are of no points value over the J.C. Whitney brand and could cost you points because they are not perfect whilst the JCW ones get a pass. Does that make any sense to you? It doesn't to me either.

Here is the rub for me. Years ago I bought a set of turn signals (right original ones) for the 41 project. I paid 1.3K for them plus shipping, and ordered an expensive set of wires for it. Now I for all they are worth is the price of junk JCW types that look like crap in the car. And, I suppose one could hang a set of four lights on the front or rear bumpers or fenders and still no points off on account of the notion that they are a safety item. Mercy. I'm a-kpulling me hair out here.

Question: Should I take off the wing nut from the visors on account that it would be a safety thing to do so. Gene pointed out that they were dropped after 1942 because in accident situations they were shooting through folks heads like bullets. Well, he didn't say that exactly but how else were they so lethal?

I want support for the notion that accessories add points to a car and a lack of them will not. Further that if you put a JCW type accessory on your car - especially turn signals - you get heavy points off. What is wrong with a-stickin your stinkin hand and arm out the window if you don't have proper, factory for the year turn signals? Huh? Answer me that one. Heavens to Betsy! If that don't beat all?

Anyone interested in a nice set of original turn signals for a 1941. They may become available.

Please don't mind me, I'm just whining.

Charlie

For the 45 years I have been a VCCA member neatly installed directionals were considereed a safety item and points would not be deducted in judging. Along with that the wireing should be neat and orderly and cloth covered if that is what the car had.
Seat belts - same story (except for wiring).
You get "nothing extra" for any accessory, safety or not. Points are never added and all cars start with 1000 points.

I did have points deducted because I converted my '31 Cowl Lights to turn signals and they did not work as parking lights. I added lights to the rear so my tail lights worked as original. No deduction for the added lights.

Gene, You think that excellent response is going to pacify me when I'm all wound up about this issue? I didn't think so.

Here is the thing (rub, if you will). I've seen a lot of add-on turn-signal kits installed on vintage cars. None of them are neat. The best installation will never trump the original. Take the 41 for instance. The wiring loom will not be covered by a cover designed for the steering column. They will just trace down and under the dash. Most I've seen are plastic coated. And, because the owner will point out the judge that they are a safety item, he will get a pass. Given that how does a guy like me not have "air in his jaws" when he sees this and knows that he will not get a plus for spending big bucks and having the dang thing just right?

If every car is going to start out at 1000 points then why not add points for the accessories to offset some nick in the paint or wrong valve stem or something. It ain't logical and it ain't right. There is absolute no incentive to search for and add on accessories to a particular vehicle. In fact by the way we judge, it is poor judgement on the part of the owner to add any accessory at all owing to the fact that the accessory may cost him points instead of adding any. See my logic.

That is why if you have a "Plain Jane" you're far more likely to have less points deducted than one loaded with rare/scarce and expensive accessories. That seems bassackards to me. It is flawed thinking. We need to rethink this upside-down, hedge used by many to merely get a "210" and have it compete with a loaded BelAir. No one bought a "210" say unless they were a school teacher, librarian or widow on an Alpo budget.

We don't need no stinking turn-signals, anyway. Calling them a safety item is hiding behind fear of a collision. People need to give us old cars some lee-way or get out of the way.

Am I alone with my logical rant? Unbelievable!

Charlie

That has been said for years. No accessories are better than wrong accessories. A bare 1941 hevrolet with no accessories, ie a heater, radio, or anything can be a first place best of show car. Judging is done and scores as the car would have been delivered to the owner when new and if any accessories were addded the must be That year accessories listed in Chevrolet literature.
Now I understand where you are coming from If signals were offered in 1941 that should be the only ones considered.
If your car is a 1939 more or less early period aftermarket signals should be installed. There should be a cut off line somewhere such as anything newer that 1950 as an example should have Chevrolet Guide signals due to the rarity of the correct earlier signals.
Personally I doon't get that wound -up about judging because there are so many fuzzy areas.....I would rather drive and enjoy.

Charlie,

I need to speak to you and send you pics of ALL THE PARTS that I want to sell.

Why, you ask?

Since you paid 1.3K for your turn signals, I know I have a bunch of parts I could sell to you, perhaps some prices might even be be under 1.3K.

Perhaps he was the last of the big spenders.

I'm with you Gene. Driving and Touring is where I am these days. The last two meets I attended I had our card registered as DO NOT JUDGE.

Yep, LOL, the last of the big time spenders !

I am not sure about the US law but here in Australia it is illegal to have any person or part there of outside a motor vehicle in motion though I am not sure about hand signalling since the enforced electric signalling. Not many of the younger drivers here would know what a hand signal is indicating.
Tony

Some of us get a big "charge" from finding and installing "correct accessories" on our vehicles...You talk rare turn signal switches, the 48 has just that with the 49 being slightly different, with both using the same number. I was finally able to purchases the correct 48 switch and yes, paid a petty penny for it, when I received it I was like a 5 year old on xmas day.
Ignore the judging...A hobby is a hobby and different strokes for different folks!
Now how badly will I be beat up for my Fulton visor???All I can say about that is I like the look and the function it serves...I was told,in 48 there were many Chevy dealers installing the fulton vs the karvisor...click the link...Now would you install that on your vintage car or the stylish Fulton
???
Do not fail to notice the correct GM peep mirror, another $$ find...Some of us like accessories


http://www.1948chevy.com/images-acc/karvisor.jpg


The beauty a Fulton...Charlie, quite please

Gene BTW...Nice new avatar!!!Tell us about that car?

Good answer

Here, in the south eastern part of the U.S., the only hand signal we see is with "that one finger".

Very seldom see electronic signals used anymore. We "guess" as to what others intentions may be.

Don't see tickets issued for those who do not use their signals, either.

The "single finger" salute is often seen here too.
No doubt I had a few directed at me in 2005 after the Junkyard Dog Tour but that is another story.
Tony

Perhaps you could title your story as "the single finger salute" and publish it in an upcoming issue of the G & D. Good reading, I would bet.

I was hoping DTM would give an opinion on the original question of installing an aftermarket kit on a year where the signals were a Chevrolet accessory.

I thought he did, but now see he did not. Perhaps he will.

I just paged back - he didn't.

Off topic, but your pic in your avatar is such a good looking wagon. Great looking design.

Aftermarket Turn Signals on a Chevrolet that offered Turn Signals as an Option / Accessory is the question.
IF you install the correct Chevrolet Option / Accessory, then there would be no point deduction if installed with quailty in mind.

IF you install an aftermarket turn signals in a Chevrolet where there were Genuine Chevrolet accessory turn signals offered, there would be some sort of deduction. The same holds true for aftermarket Fog Lamps, Spot Lamps, Motorola Radios, etc. Western Auto and other stores offered aftermarket items. These aftermarket accessories deserve point deductions if you are having your vehicle judged. The VCCA values and appreciates those who spend the time and money to install correct genuine Chevrolet accessories.

IF you install turn signals in a vehicle which did not offer turn signals as a Genuine Accessory (like 1939 ??? and earlier Chevrolets), then NO point deduction would occur if they are installed with quailty in mind.

Clear as mud?

dtm

Well this is off topic a little. I'm restoring a 1962 Corvan ex-Bell telephone truck. This was strictly a fleet vehicle i.e.stripped. In some states extra front and rear lights had to be installed to meet the DMV requirements for turn signals.As you might guess I only had a picture of them in a factory brochure but as luck would have it I met a guy with a Corvan at a show ,showed him the picture and he said he just took these very lights off of his van last week. Needless to say it was Christmas morning for me.
Am I to be penalized for these? I only have a brochure showing them being available but no documentation in writing they were required in my state. Ed Bittman VCCA#47508 TA#99 Dade City,fl

dtm,
Very clear and straight foward. Thank You.
Wonder how many judges will be going along with it.

corvaired,
If the brochure is a Chevrolet publication that is your documentation.
They should be listed in the 1962 Corvair accessory list.
The required by a state would not be necessary.

If turn signals are installed in a vehicle, which did not have turn signals offered as an option, no points would be deducted because the turn signals are a safety related item ..... am I correct on my thinking here ?

Another question or observation, DTM.

If two same year, same model vehicles are being judged ...... one has many options, while the other, a plain Jane, has zero options installed. I seem to use the words "options" and "accessories" in an interchangeable fashion.

It seems the plain Jane has a better chance of "maintaining" a higher point score, because the vehicle with the options COULD lose points, because of the lack of a quality installation or the options, which are installed, are either aftermarket or incorrect for model year.

Would my thinking be correct ?